hi,
in a team game i just played i faced this ability as usf. i think this is way over the top in terms of the damage it does aganist usf tanks and is also good versus infantry. it was able to one shot my jackson and almost kill my 2 shermans. if they had sustained a single pak/schreck hit before they would be dead too. basically i think its too hard to react to this. i think its too good.
im not talking about usf vs.wehr/okw, or allies vs axis balance overall, just my opinion on this single ability
stuka close air support in lightning war doctrine too good?
7 Nov 2015, 03:47 AM
#1
Posts: 34
"we must stiffen our resolve"
7 Nov 2015, 05:07 AM
#2
Posts: 1930
yeah, the ability seems to be a lot better than the thunder bolt rockets. It will easily kill most allied armor and will go after any infantry as well.
Nowadays it's pretty rare to see the thunderbolt actually kill something. Even the panzer4 can easily get out in time.
The stuka by comparsion are a lot more accuracy and the shell seems to stunn tanks it hits.
Nowadays it's pretty rare to see the thunderbolt actually kill something. Even the panzer4 can easily get out in time.
The stuka by comparsion are a lot more accuracy and the shell seems to stunn tanks it hits.
7 Nov 2015, 05:18 AM
#3
Posts: 1164
it is too strong, i agree (though i have to admit that in team games i usually like the blitzkrieg doctrine better).
But it also is pretty much the same as the P47, as in same warning time, similar damage/cost etc. AA vehicles shut down both abilities fairly well (as in make them almost useless).
what i dislike most about both abilities is that they're supposed to be good against tanks, but they also strafe infantry. even when there aren't even any tanks around. effectively, if you don't have any sort of AA, the area of operation becomes a "no-go zone" for the duration.
i've already made several suggestions about the abilities to try and make them less powerful (i.e. no more self spotting, only start strafing if a tank is in AO etc.), although i'm not even sure myself whether these changes would be good. Both abilities are in a weird spot where they can be absolutely devastating or almost useless. If you just straight up nerf damage they become useless almost instantly (or at the very least not cost-efficient).
But it also is pretty much the same as the P47, as in same warning time, similar damage/cost etc. AA vehicles shut down both abilities fairly well (as in make them almost useless).
what i dislike most about both abilities is that they're supposed to be good against tanks, but they also strafe infantry. even when there aren't even any tanks around. effectively, if you don't have any sort of AA, the area of operation becomes a "no-go zone" for the duration.
i've already made several suggestions about the abilities to try and make them less powerful (i.e. no more self spotting, only start strafing if a tank is in AO etc.), although i'm not even sure myself whether these changes would be good. Both abilities are in a weird spot where they can be absolutely devastating or almost useless. If you just straight up nerf damage they become useless almost instantly (or at the very least not cost-efficient).
7 Nov 2015, 06:56 AM
#4
Posts: 138
Well from what I understand the p47 only targets tanks the infantry it hits just get caught up in the strafe path it wont actively target infantry.
The Ostheer close air support will prioritize tanks but will also target everything else it even says in its description that it will target enemy units doesn't specify for vehicles only.
The ability used to be pretty bad but after the buffs it makes a doctrine like jagaer infantry look really good as it provides some actual late game but for lighting war a doctrine that already has a tiger for late game it might very well be a bit too good to have those 2 in the same doctrine I don't own lightning war and haven't faced so cant discuss it much.
The Ostheer close air support will prioritize tanks but will also target everything else it even says in its description that it will target enemy units doesn't specify for vehicles only.
The ability used to be pretty bad but after the buffs it makes a doctrine like jagaer infantry look really good as it provides some actual late game but for lighting war a doctrine that already has a tiger for late game it might very well be a bit too good to have those 2 in the same doctrine I don't own lightning war and haven't faced so cant discuss it much.
7 Nov 2015, 07:12 AM
#5
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
It fucks up vehicles and then everything else in the area for less than P-47s which will only target vehicles (though they certainly will mess with any infantry nearby these vehicles), isn't it? 200 for Stuka CAS, 240 for P-47s? That clearly ain't right.
7 Nov 2015, 07:35 AM
#6
Posts: 721
i think lot of people are forgetting its damaged got nerfed from 120 to 60...which made cas bad but the one with 2 planes now is good...i would like il2 get buffed i think planes should be like this just make aa strong against planes then aa will be more relevant while planes not being useless...if you see planes just go aa good agsint infy and planes
7 Nov 2015, 08:25 AM
#7
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
i think lot of people are forgetting its damaged got nerfed from 120 to 60...which made cas bad but the one with 2 planes now is good...i would like il2 get buffed i think planes should be like this just make aa strong against planes then aa will be more relevant while planes not being useless...if you see planes just go aa good agsint infy and planes
90% sure CAS AT strafe didn't get nerf (saw it 1shotting a M26 last week).
The one which got it's damage halve is the loitering one as they added a 2nd plane. This leaves some reaction to the player but double the effectiveness against light vehicles, support weapons and infantry.
But it also is pretty much the same as the P47, as in same warning time, similar damage/cost etc. AA vehicles shut down both abilities fairly well (as in make them almost useless).
what i dislike most about both abilities is that they're supposed to be good against tanks, but they also strafe infantry. even when there aren't even any tanks around. effectively, if you don't have any sort of AA, the area of operation becomes a "no-go zone" for the duration.
CAS: 200 muni vs P47: 240 muni
Problem with P47 is that it won't hit medium vehicles as the missiles goes through the sides. It won't target infantry nor support weapons but the splash of the rockets is good. CAS will prioritize vehicles but it will hit whatever is on the zone.
IMO, AA should be better. Less range but shutting down planes quicker.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
7 Nov 2015, 08:33 AM
#8
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Yes it is strong , but it is as strong as any off map should be.
They need to act as areal denial.
You should not move there until the ability ends.
The same is also British off maps and some USA ones (RNG bombs)
I think all it need is to delay planes by some time (5 seconds). So you can move your tank out of this kill zone.And ofc dont alloved it to be fired in HQ sector.
Then it will be fine. It should act as areal denial. Now it arive to fast , so youre not even able to move your tanks out of it.
Damange OK
Dealy NOT
They need to act as areal denial.
You should not move there until the ability ends.
The same is also British off maps and some USA ones (RNG bombs)
I think all it need is to delay planes by some time (5 seconds). So you can move your tank out of this kill zone.And ofc dont alloved it to be fired in HQ sector.
Then it will be fine. It should act as areal denial. Now it arive to fast , so youre not even able to move your tanks out of it.
Damange OK
Dealy NOT
7 Nov 2015, 09:20 AM
#9
Posts: 23
its fine
7 Nov 2015, 09:40 AM
#10
Posts: 103
Move out of the circle..
Build AA half-track
Put AA half-track outside of the circle
???
Profit
Build AA half-track
Put AA half-track outside of the circle
???
Profit
7 Nov 2015, 10:24 AM
#11
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Honestly, I like it.
It's very powerful and force to move out of the circle to or force you to make AA unit.
What's not right is the Sturmovnik which can't kill even Puma or useless P47.
Buff Sturmovnik to smiliar level; buff P47 to the best AT off map.
It's very powerful and force to move out of the circle to or force you to make AA unit.
What's not right is the Sturmovnik which can't kill even Puma or useless P47.
Buff Sturmovnik to smiliar level; buff P47 to the best AT off map.
7 Nov 2015, 10:49 AM
#12
Posts: 170
Move out of the circle..
Build AA half-track
Put AA half-track outside of the circle
???
Profit
Same thing as p47, except p47 can't oneshot mediums on the first run.
7 Nov 2015, 10:49 AM
#13
Posts: 170
Same thing as p47, except it oneshots mediums on the first run.
7 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM
#14
Posts: 179
It shouldnt target infantry.
7 Nov 2015, 11:28 AM
#15
Posts: 239
Oh hey, it's this thread again.
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7 Nov 2015, 11:33 AM
#16
Posts: 58
Yeah you got a point there.
7 Nov 2015, 11:41 AM
#17
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
i think lot of people are forgetting its damaged got nerfed from 120 to 60...which made cas bad but the one with 2 planes now is good...i would like il2 get buffed i think planes should be like this just make aa strong against planes then aa will be more relevant while planes not being useless...if you see planes just go aa good agsint infy and planes
I always enjoy the way your twisting the facts.
SCAS was changed from 120 to 60 BECAUSE it got 2nd plane, less alpha strike, but harder to counter now.
CAS still have 120, nothing changed for it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Nov 2015, 12:13 PM
#18
Posts: 521
P-47 is only useful vs heavy tanks, because the rockets barely every hit anything smaller than a panther 
7 Nov 2015, 12:38 PM
#19
Posts: 1930
I always enjoy the way your twisting the facts.
SCAS was changed from 120 to 60 BECAUSE it got 2nd plane, less alpha strike, but harder to counter now.
CAS still have 120, nothing changed for it.
actually both version get two guns, so it's more like 2x60 and 2x120.
both versions also have a 20% of triggering a critical on deflection, and they will still deal 66% damage damage on deflection.
7 Nov 2015, 14:41 PM
#20
Posts: 61
This ability has won games for me. It's difficult to avoid once you are in the kill zone and it does execute strafe runs on anti tank and artillery guns.
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