Maxim Spam + SU85 (aka attack move win)
A little background:
I'm about an 80/20 ostheer/soviet player. I have a pretty good win ratio against most builds, with the single exception of maxim spam. I'm 0-6 against Maxims (and about a 70% winner overall). I really think that Maxims are far too strong, and that it ultimately becomes the Soviet's game to lose if they go for it. However, as the age old strategy game maxim goes (see what I did there?), "play what you think is overpowered and see what people do against it).
Since switching to Russians full time, I've won 11 out of 12 games. All but one opponent was at least level 40. Most games were pretty well decided by ten minutes. The worst part is that it didn't even feel difficult. In most of the games I never once felt like I was really in danger of losing. It was comical watching people try to attack- gren spam, PGs, P4 (HAH!), Ostwind, even snipers.
Here's the outline of the build:
-First engi captures
-Second engi builds Support Weapon Kampaneya (I know there's a slight manpower delay here, i tend to build it towards the outskirts of the base to minimize lost time)
-Maxim, Maxim, Maxim, Maxim
-Select "Guards Motor Coordination Tactic"
-Guards x2 with DPS LMG
-Attack move the enemy, cut off their supplies, set up shop and use pioneers and 1-2 mgs to cap
-lay mines EVERYWHERE (there's literally nothing else to get munis with besides DPS)
-Finish the game with Rocket Trucks and another SU-85
This hard counters Grenadier or PG spam. No micro necessary- attack move to win.
Snipers are dealt with rather hilariously. Use MGs to suppress infantry that are screening it, then run a full six-man MG squad AT the sniper. If he stops to take a shot, immediately attack him. Your fast deploy speed means it's quite likely you will get a burst of fire off at him, which will usually kill or severely injure his sniper. 120mm mortar later can also be used to kill him with either the massive AOE of barrage or Precise Shot.
Mortars can be killed by your own 120mm, or more commonly overrun by your plethora of MG teams.
No T3 vehicle can defeat the SU-85, especially with Mark Vehicle. Just make sure to keep your SU-85 way back and use it like an AT gun. They do have trouble penetrating Panther armor, but you can get T-34/85s to Ram it if you'really having a lot of trouble.
Flame halftrack is easily the trickiest thing to fight because of your mediocre mid-game anti-tank abilities (just Guards and mines, though Mark Vehicle helps) and the fact that it can quickly jump around the map, attacking your flanking cappers. However, in all but two of the games I was able to kill it with either Guards or mines + Guards. Planting two mines adjacent to each other can help as well.
Triple pio starts make it a lot harder for you to seize the early game decisively, I've noticed.
Thoughts? Counters? I think something weird like double or triple sniper combined with mass pioneers might work.
Full description of the build is here.
Gives you a little more pressure and 2 maxims are still able to deal with everything.
1) I prefer building directly off the start. You'll float about 140 manpower or such, but once the building is built, cap with engie, and make the mg immediately. Once the mg spawns you'll usually have anough manpower for the second pretty much the moment the first enters the playing area.
2) I haven't actually found a commander I like the best with this strategy yet, though I feel it's useful to go one that has a decent amount of munitions dump. Without the early conscripts, I noticed a huge buildup in munitions from not throwing molotovs and at nades. It's nice to get uses for these.
My other advice is, although It's tempting to buff maxims with bulletins, I would advise against it. Played a 1v1 in which the guy read my strat from the bulletins, and countered me hard with a gren squad, a mortar or two and snipers. I had to switch it up quick, and ultimately took the win, but he pretty much made the mg's worthless.
-Regular track transporting guys to flank
-Regular flanking with grens or pgrens
-Doctrine units - Mortar track
Playing the russians I found that spamming Maxims and 120mm was a verry effective tactic, though it didnt really take much skill. Getting a Tank destroyer (forgotten theire name) up behind for AT-support made my lines practicly impenetrable. Hope they do something about this.
It's a little sad that strats like this and the scoutcar+sniper/flamer work so well.
I was so bored while attack moving to win that I was watching Sepharim's stream on my laptop simultaneously, and he lost a game to Maxim spam and said after:
"Maxims are so unbalanced right now it's ridiculous. Relic has to get their shit together and figure this out... they literally only need to reduce the crew size."
I'm generally stopping at 3 MGs now and getting a Conscript for capping + merge squad. The fourth MG is really kind of overkill.
funny funny funny , i envolded an strat like this months before we played first time in alpha . Must test this if it really works so well
I remember that xD
Except we thought it would be a good strat because the 6 man crew could fight off flanks, except those extra guys are actually terrible but mortars cant hit them and they rotate waaay too fast.
I think it was more due to me not playing well rather than any real weakness to the strategy though.
I'm OK with them on big maps where I start with Tier 2. On smaller maps they get maddening very quickly.
I never lose to this tactic as the ostheer.I usually abuse the strafing run and get 2 snipers and a flame half track and it shuts it down.
I'd like to see a replay of that.
I eventually rush T3 and pop out a pair of t34s
I prefer a somewhat more traditional approach that centers around maxims.
I eventually rush T3 and pop out a pair of t34s
This gives you more capping power early and hides the fact that you're going maxims, but it also is a significant MP investment early as well as a source of bleeding MP. One of the virtues of going mostly Maxims is that your reinforcement costs are low, because either you get the suppress or you get flanked badly enough that it's an obvious instant retreat.
As is your maxim can set up in the face of an MG42 and kill it - even if it's pinned!
My feeling is that this strat is strong because you can force retreats via supression and then set up shop on their fuel/muni points. This is harder to do early if you mostly have conscripts?
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