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Soviet T3 need cost increase or Ost T3 cost reduction!

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20 Jul 2015, 20:50 PM
#161
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176



What if your opponent:

1. "Cleverly" sweeps your mines,
2. is not a total scrub / avoids your Pzfausts and
3. uses his light vehicles on your flanks?

#theorycraftingFTW


1. He can try sweeping mines all day long, but he's gonna have to crawl across overlapping MG fire first. An obstacle which is not covered by weapons is not an obstacle.
2. If he isn't within PzFaust range, then he's not close enough to circle strafe my AT gun effectively.
3. Then I turn around and get the shot off half a second later to more or less the same effect, especially since I have mines there too. Only mining the approach all your guns are facing would be stupid.

It's not theorycrafting, it's the shit I do every match.

The best thing an Allied player can do against OH is encirclement. You let him have his patch of land and outproduce him before he gets the tech to start trading armor effectively, shut him down early. You can't let him rest in a point of strategic superiority, or you'll never kick him out of it.
20 Jul 2015, 20:51 PM
#162
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

Relic may have taken away the t-70 from me but now that it has come back in the form of the quad the horde shall return. \ :foreveralone: /
20 Jul 2015, 20:51 PM
#163
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Costincrease for sov t3 is also viable
20 Jul 2015, 21:18 PM
#164
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176

Ostheer players normally always go heavy T1 because you need to establish decent map control in order to stay in the game. Ostheer squads also drain your MP pretty heavily on the reinforcement costs so you tend to be really skint on MP early in the game making the 320 MP Pak a hard to achieve goal.

A smart player won't let you get in faust range, relying on that for countering an M5 or T-70 is laughable.


My usual build order goes:
1. MG42 X2
2. Gren
3. Mortar against SU, Sniper against USF
4. Hazy here, mostly floating MP as I wait for T2. I often tend to build a bunker or two during this period, though if my enemy has mortars I'll just get another Gren.
5. T2
6. Halftrack
7. Pgren and AT Gun, order depending on how the match is going.
8. I like to go Mobile Defense, so now I get Ostruppen to harass the shit out of the map.
9. T3
10. Ostwind
11. PzIV

Map control is rarely a problem, especially with the HT to ferry units around, as long as my central position is well placed. Once the Ostruppen come in things get even easier. I often face hordes of units coming from multiple directions, all bigger than my army, but there's nothing a good prepared position can't beat.

And if a T-70 isn't close enough to faust, then it isn't close enough to dodge my AT either.
aaa
20 Jul 2015, 21:28 PM
#165
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486

Its logical to close this thread until 2 weeks after the patch. Right now is a total BS whine.
20 Jul 2015, 21:49 PM
#166
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
Just increase the build time by 30-40 sec. Fixed.
21 Jul 2015, 10:52 AM
#167
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

Kappa pak 40 thanks for mentioning. Mobile phone keyboard is too small OpieOP

Actually, pak is hard counter to light and medium vehicles. ALWAYS.
21 Jul 2015, 11:01 AM
#168
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



Its bad faction design when a faction is forced into turtling.


He knows it but he pretends it's not a problem because he, as any other soviet fanboy wants to confiscate initiative, in order to have the upper hand in battle. But he doesn't want you to realise that, because then it would clearly mean that compared to Ostheer, Soviets have allways the advantage and he will never admit that. The only true thing in what he said is that this is a reality since 7 years assuming that a bad thing is legit just because it's so old. Typical Katitof bullshit.
21 Jul 2015, 11:07 AM
#169
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1



My usual build order goes:
1. MG42 X2
2. Gren
3. Mortar against SU, Sniper against USF
4. Hazy here, mostly floating MP as I wait for T2. I often tend to build a bunker or two during this period, though if my enemy has mortars I'll just get another Gren.
5. T2
6. Halftrack
7. Pgren and AT Gun, order depending on how the match is going.
8. I like to go Mobile Defense, so now I get Ostruppen to harass the shit out of the map.
9. T3
10. Ostwind
11. PzIV

Map control is rarely a problem, especially with the HT to ferry units around, as long as my central position is well placed. Once the Ostruppen come in things get even easier. I often face hordes of units coming from multiple directions, all bigger than my army, but there's nothing a good prepared position can't beat.

And if a T-70 isn't close enough to faust, then it isn't close enough to dodge my AT either.


Only 1 gren, good luck fausting something actually ...
With which unit are you taking map control, lonely gren or the pio ?
21 Jul 2015, 11:24 AM
#170
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Let's say that Efficency is measurement of timing, power and cost.

Balance between Efficency of Soviet T4 and Wehrmach T3 is fine.
Balance between Efficency of Soviet T3 and OKW T0+(T1/T2) is fine.
T-70 Efficency is fine
M5/M17 Efficency is OP

Why tweak Tier timings if there are problems with a single unit?
Just raise fuel cost of M5 keeping in mind that 120 muni upgrade is costly investment too (4 mines!)
Phy
21 Jul 2015, 13:02 PM
#171
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

A few games (before even patch release) are enough to claim for a nerf in this community. o_O

Let's play a bit more and after that we talk. M5 is a crystal unit and hard to micro. Countering it can not be, in any case, too hard with pak40/faust/shrecks.
21 Jul 2015, 13:04 PM
#172
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jul 2015, 13:02 PMPhy
A few games (before even patch release) are enough to claim for a nerf in this community. o_O

Let's play a bit more and after that we talk. M5 is a crystal unit and hard to micro. Countering it can not be, in any case, too hard with pak40/faust/shrecks.


It's way easier to micro than the other AA HT's by a long shot.
Phy
21 Jul 2015, 13:14 PM
#173
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1



It's way easier to micro than the other AA HT's by a long shot.


Only the aa ht of USF is harder -and because it's poorly designed in this aspect-. Or you meant the flak ht? :clap:
21 Jul 2015, 13:24 PM
#174
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

The Quad M5 AA halftrack is the easiest light vehicle to micro, there is nothing hard about it. It's fast, has blitz, has long range, fires on the move, suppresses infantry trying to chase it, doesn't have to deal with oorah, has small target size (hard to hit at long range with shreks), has to worry less about enemy mines than axis light vehicles. If the Quad M5 is considered "hard to micro" then units like the OKW Flak AA half track must be considered impossible to micro.

21 Jul 2015, 14:56 PM
#175
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

The Quad M5 AA halftrack is the easiest light vehicle to micro, there is nothing hard about it. It's fast, has blitz, has long range, fires on the move, suppresses infantry trying to chase it, doesn't have to deal with oorah, has small target size (hard to hit at long range with shreks), has to worry less about enemy mines than axis light vehicles. If the Quad M5 is considered "hard to micro" then units like the OKW Flak AA half track must be considered impossible to micro.



This, you only lose it if you are micro'in other units and don't focus on the M5 or if you'll move it in plain stupid
21 Jul 2015, 15:02 PM
#176
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578



This, you only lose it if you are micro'in other units and don't focus on the M5 or if you'll move it in plain stupid

Reality called - you're still wrong about the Pak40 not being good against it.

And schreks etc. :/
21 Jul 2015, 15:10 PM
#177
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
The quad DPS is fucking insane. If you dont retreat immediately it will wipe the entire squad. The opening burst, even on the move usually always kills a model within like 2 seconds.
21 Jul 2015, 15:42 PM
#178
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jul 2015, 11:07 AMBlalord


Only 1 gren, good luck fausting something actually ...
With which unit are you taking map control, lonely gren or the pio ?


Pios and Grens aren't the only units that can cap yknow. I often cap the frontline with HMGs initially and backcap with mortar and Pios.

One Faust is all it takes, and the Ostruppen help too.
21 Jul 2015, 16:11 PM
#179
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

Prostruppen is the new thing to counter SU light vehicle rush. I think with osttruppen + MG, Ost plays exactly the same as old Wehr. And people keeps forgetting that Ost inf is better in Soviet in most circumstance except being wiped by arty/mines. Before SU got the magical Quad, they have to deal with turbo mortar, uber dakka MG42 or Klingon-camo sniper. Seriously, all Soviet inf was nerfed in some ways with each patch: first shocks, than guards now cons.
21 Jul 2015, 16:35 PM
#180
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

If the Soviets are investing in light vehicles, couldn't the Wehrmacht player be able to rush out P4 to nullify this? Paks, PGS and Grens should be able to keep the HT and T-70 in check until then.

AND please, M5 does not need any changes right now, this unit needed some love since the WFA release. All the HT at this moment should be aligned the same way (high suppression).
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