Soviet T3 need cost increase or Ost T3 cost reduction!
20 Jul 2015, 09:47 AM
#101
Posts: 1653
2x 222 = 40 fuel that you should invest to beat down a AAHT Kappa. 40 fuel more away from a viable T3. Even more counters at that point...
20 Jul 2015, 10:15 AM
#102
Posts: 14
AAHT will have the greatest effect in 1v1, simply because paks can only defend part of the map. The rest of the map will be open slather for the AAHT. The problem I see is AAHT will be able to patrol the edges while Sov indirect fire pounds the Ost fortified position..
That's nearly how I played it during my 1v1 tests. The abilty to reinforce your distant squads while "visiting" the edge of the map made it even better. And holy shit, the quad is damn fast.
And it vets extremly fast, too.
Paks are only getting an issue if you're making a crucial mistake or he oneshots the quad with 2 Paks. But that never happens, because its really easy to keep Cons in Front of the quad, which gets even better with sandbags.
And if he gets 2 paks he basically lost all mapcontrol because of the heavy mp investment, cause he needs to guard these things very well.
20 Jul 2015, 10:44 AM
#103
Posts: 513
2x 222 = 40 fuel that you should invest to beat down a AAHT Kappa. 40 fuel more away from a viable T3. Even more counters at that point...
Then don't build 2x 222's if you would prefer to wait for T3, but then you need to live with the fact the AAHT is going to have a free roam on areas that aren't defended by your PaKs... similarly to how an OKW HT/Puma has free roam to areas where I don't have a ZiS... You can't argue that P4's and Stug's should be arriving at the same time as light vehicles because of this because your to stubborn and want to wait for yolo p4's
20 Jul 2015, 10:48 AM
#104
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Now, check old replays and see what allies did against fast luchs, then do the same against T70 and stuarts.
Katitof, please g.t.f.o. of the topic if you think the Soviet M5 quad rush is equal to the P2 rush. You just embarrassing yourself by your lack of game knowledge.
20 Jul 2015, 10:48 AM
#105
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
The problem with these counters is that they force the ostheer player to adopt a "turtle-like" playstile.
A revelation is about to shine upon you:
It was ALWAYS the intended playstyle for wehr.
Slow creep with weapon teams taking sector by sector instead of wide spread soviet aggression.
Ost players will have to adapt to their intended army flow! Oh the dread and tragedy!
2x 222 = 40 fuel that you should invest to beat down a AAHT Kappa. 40 fuel more away from a viable T3. Even more counters at that point...
AAHT doesn't cost exactly no fuel and no muni and building it won't really speed up that first T34. Spending fuel to counter fuel, who would have ever go for this outrage? You still have PaKs and mines.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
20 Jul 2015, 10:49 AM
#106
Posts: 54
Permanently Banned
Then don't build 2x 222's if you would prefer to wait for T3, but then you need to live with the fact the AAHT is going to have a free roam on areas that aren't defended by your PaKs... similarly to how an OKW HT/Puma has free roam to areas where I don't have a ZiS... You can't argue that P4's and Stug's should be arriving at the same time as light vehicles because of this because your to stubborn and want to wait for yolo p4's
Yolo p4s? Please explain, do you mean they are an easy a move point click boom vehicle that grants you victory as soon as it hits the field? To my believe the AAHT and T70 will have a far greater shock value than the p4 since they hit the field earlier and will not face a unit that is equivalent to them for quite some time.
Paks do counter them, but not in the way that a light vehicle of the same proportions would counter them.
Soon the Jedi will be no more.
20 Jul 2015, 10:52 AM
#107
Posts: 1653
Then don't build 2x 222's if you would prefer to wait for T3, but then you need to live with the fact the AAHT is going to have a free roam on areas that aren't defended by your PaKs... similarly to how an OKW HT/Puma has free roam to areas where I don't have a ZiS... You can't argue that P4's and Stug's should be arriving at the same time as light vehicles because of this because your to stubborn and want to wait for yolo p4's
I'm not stubborn and want yolo Pz4's I want to have some fair time between the units, not to see already hard counters, before I get my 1st Pz4 on the field
20 Jul 2015, 10:58 AM
#108
Posts: 1486
As for making 2 AC to counter AAHT, thats insane. Guards, mines, at nades shut down AC's completely.
Scout cars are just a complete waste of fuel on most maps vs sov, unless shocks are used.
Right answer is.
you should get t3 to counter t70 or m5 ??? r u crazy? t2 has panzergrens and pak40 to counter any kind of mechanized units
222 is totaly playble vs guards. Most likely better than guards cuz its a sturdy vehicle against T3 and can be fast repaired for free while guards bleed MP if engage it. It most likely beats guards 1v1.
It has a speed and vision.
Panz4/stug vs sovs' T3. Why not straith to the ace in tier 2.
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20 Jul 2015, 10:59 AM
#109
Posts: 513
I'm not stubborn and want yolo Pz4's I want to have some fair time between the units, not to see already hard counters, before I get my 1st Pz4 on the field
As I said, Soviet T3 is not Ostheer T3, they are buffered now since the T34 switch. Having ostheer t3 arrive at the same time as soviet t3 would just be stupid. AAHT, t70's and SU76's vs P4's and the new terminator StuG... there NEEDS to be a grace period where soviet t3 can actually be useful and the ostheer player needs to decide whether to wait for their ultra powerful T3 or go heavy t2 (which has fine counters).
Remember that once Ostheer has t3 rolling, the power now switches to them and there is a grace period where they will have mechanized dominance and Soviets will be teching to get out appropriate counters (SU85/T34 etc).
20 Jul 2015, 11:01 AM
#110
Posts: 770
222 is totaly playble vs guards. Most likely better than guards cuz its a sturdy vehicle against T3 and can be fast repaired for free while guards bleed MP if engage it. It most likely beats guards 1v1.
It has a speed and vision.
That bolded part is basically proof that you dont play the game. but 222's are not useless when guards are around people and 2 222's will greatly reduce the impact of the 222's. all the while the late game of the soviets have has been greatly reduced
20 Jul 2015, 11:05 AM
#111
Posts: 1486
I see the main problem is that most people, even here are playing 2s 3s 4s games.
So they dont know how to play normal 1v1. Even 1v1 players sometimes dont know what to do after new OP42 buffs. And cant get used to new builds and strats.
So they dont know how to play normal 1v1. Even 1v1 players sometimes dont know what to do after new OP42 buffs. And cant get used to new builds and strats.
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20 Jul 2015, 11:06 AM
#112
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Remember that once Ostheer has t3 rolling, the power now switches to them and there is a grace period where they will have mechanized dominance and Soviets will be teching to get out appropriate counters (SU85/T34 etc).
The problem is that this is not the case at all. The panzer4 is already countered before it hits the field and has no shock value. Even in the best case scenario, where you are able to hold 50% of the map against the 7:00 Quad HT until you P4 arrives, the Soviet can make 2 SU76s to easily have a mobile counter to the P4. Read back some of my posts to see why, I can't be bothered to write another 1000 word essay.
20 Jul 2015, 11:11 AM
#113
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
I see the main problem is that most people, even here are playing 2s 3s 4s games.
So they dont know how to play normal 1v1. Even 1v1 players sometimes dont know what to do after new OP42 buffs. And cant get used to new builds and strats.
Are you telling me I don't play 1v1s?
No, you see, the problem is that you are the one who actually does not play the game on any decent level yet is insistent on spurting your nonsense all over this thread. 222 counters guards.. GET. OUT.
20 Jul 2015, 11:16 AM
#114
Posts: 1124
I find su76s range to be just a tad too much. The range combined with the free arty is devastating against paks. I would like to see a range reduction, or a cost to the arty. Even if the accuracy to the arty is buffed. It still shouldn't be free.
20 Jul 2015, 11:19 AM
#115
Posts: 1486
Sov germ game looks just about right now. I think that germ fraction was OP after 2 staright buffs to MG42.
Now They still have deadly rifle nades with long range even at vet1. They have very strong LMG and all this for 240 MP.
Abiblities off this kind are atribute of allied expensive infantry not 240 MP infantry.
Now 240 MP grens are trading equaly with 330 MP guards.
They have significant advantage in the opening, dont you think that some compensation for that is normal thing.
Now They still have deadly rifle nades with long range even at vet1. They have very strong LMG and all this for 240 MP.
Abiblities off this kind are atribute of allied expensive infantry not 240 MP infantry.
Now 240 MP grens are trading equaly with 330 MP guards.
They have significant advantage in the opening, dont you think that some compensation for that is normal thing.
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20 Jul 2015, 12:14 PM
#116
Posts: 1653
Now 240 MP grens are trading equaly with 330 MP guards.
They have significant advantage in the opening, dont you think that some compensation for that is normal thing.
Uuuhm no they don't, but have to find out how the 27 dmg PTRS are doing later on
20 Jul 2015, 12:33 PM
#117
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
As I said, Soviet T3 is not Ostheer T3, they are buffered now since the T34 switch. Having ostheer t3 arrive at the same time as soviet t3 would just be stupid. AAHT, t70's and SU76's vs P4's and the new terminator StuG... there NEEDS to be a grace period where soviet t3 can actually be useful and the ostheer player needs to decide whether to wait for their ultra powerful T3 or go heavy t2 (which has fine counters).
Remember that once Ostheer has t3 rolling, the power now switches to them and there is a grace period where they will have mechanized dominance and Soviets will be teching to get out appropriate counters (SU85/T34 etc).
Dude OKW come the new patch won't have a single point in the game were it's light vehicles won't already be countered by enemy AT. If you seriously thing the presence of AT on the field makes light vehicles useless then your nuts. Soviet T3 doesn't need to come out at exactly the same time as Ostheer T3 but we don't need 6-7 minute M5's when the Ostheer player will have normally JUST gotten to T2.
And if PIV's and the 50 range StuG are dominating you when you have access to AT guns, guards, and 60 range TD that can pen the PIV/StuG/Ostwind at literally every range including max then just lol.
20 Jul 2015, 12:43 PM
#118
Posts: 1653
Dude OKW come the new patch won't have a single point in the game were it's light vehicles won't already be countered by enemy AT. If you seriously thing the presence of AT on the field makes light vehicles useless then your nuts. Soviet T3 doesn't need to come out at exactly the same time as Ostheer T3 but we don't need 6-7 minute M5's when the Ostheer player will have normally JUST gotten to T2.
And if PIV's and the 50 range StuG are dominating you when you have access to AT guns, guards, and 60 range TD that can pen the PIV/StuG/Ostwind at literally every range including max then just lol.
Thank you
20 Jul 2015, 12:49 PM
#119
Posts: 513
Dude OKW come the new patch won't have a single point in the game were it's light vehicles won't already be countered by enemy AT. If you seriously thing the presence of AT on the field makes light vehicles useless then your nuts. Soviet T3 doesn't need to come out at exactly the same time as Ostheer T3 but we don't need 6-7 minute M5's when the Ostheer player will have normally JUST gotten to T2.
And if PIV's and the 50 range StuG are dominating you when you have access to AT guns, guards, and 60 range TD that can pen the PIV/StuG/Ostwind at literally every range including max then just lol.
If I go T1 as soviets, I don't have access to AT, so I guess your single point theory is flawed after-all. I never said anything about AT guns presence making light vehicles useless so I don't understand what that sentence is about.
Your exact argument regarding the 7 minute M5 is totally applicable to OKW T2 where they can field FlakHT and Pumas at the same speed and if I went T1 im forced to go a guards doctrine or tech T2.
Honestly their entire whine about M5 is just knee-jerk from the changes and I'm sure people will learn how to adapt shortly. I play mainly OKW/Ostheer in 2's and I have not had any issues with it in the mod patch thus far.
20 Jul 2015, 13:01 PM
#120
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
If I go T1 as soviets, I don't have access to AT, so I guess your single point theory is flawed after-all. I never said anything about AT guns presence making light vehicles useless so I don't understand what that sentence is about.
Your exact argument regarding the 7 minute M5 is totally applicable to OKW T2 where they can field FlakHT and Pumas at the same speed and if I went T1 im forced to go a guards doctrine or tech T2.
Honestly their entire whine about M5 is just knee-jerk from the changes and I'm sure people will learn how to adapt shortly. I play mainly OKW/Ostheer in 2's and I have not had any issues with it in the mod patch thus far.
The thing is that you CAN go guards/T2 to counter the light vehicles but Ostheer is artificially stuck with nothing to counter the enemy because they won't be able to get a Pak in time due to the way the teching system works.
Nobody is asking for T3 to be massively delayed, just that Ostheer gets better counters earlier or T3 is just slightly delayed so Soviets can't exploit an artificial gap in Ostheers teching system. Add in the fact in 2's we will be seeing extremely early Stuarts and Axis early game becomes quite challenging.
Just add a high fuel cost to T3 and then subtract that additional cost from the price of T4. Also to give Soviets some extra fuel merge the AT and molotov grenade upgrades
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