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Ostheer HMG too strong now

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1 Jul 2015, 22:38 PM
#422
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779



Nobody is asking for frontal blob assaults to work on HMGs.

What people are asking for is:
- Give Maxim the same treatment, you can blob 4 (volks)grenadiers up to a maxim and kill it just fine.
- Do something about rifle grenades so you can't blob up grenadiers right up to HMGs and rifle grenade it from max range
- Give USF some MP only counters in the form of early mortars or snipers or whatever so HMGs don't automatically shut down half of the 2v2 maps.

Failing that, make the MG42 more expensive because (in large part due to the above reasons) it performs way better than the other HMGs.



Maxim aren't defensive weapon like MG42, it is used for offensive, to support your guys behind, therefore it has ultra fast pickup, rotate, set up and narrow arc of fire.

Works wonder when following a cons riot and pinning grens when they need.
Using them like MG42 just asking for getting wipe.
1 Jul 2015, 22:39 PM
#423
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

It is funny to me that Ostheer now has a better early, mid, and late game than USF. Only thing USF has going for it is fast Sherman and light vehicle play.
1 Jul 2015, 22:56 PM
#425
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1


WiFiDi (moderator): removed first sections as it breaks rules im tired of having damange discusion by removing whole posts for just 1 part so this one is getting the edit treatment which won't happen often.




Maxim aren't defensive weapon like MG42, it is used for offensive, to support your guys behind, therefore it has ultra fast pickup, rotate, set up and narrow arc of fire.

Works wonder when following a cons riot and pinning grens when they need.
Using them like MG42 just asking for getting wipe.


I have already made a list of the pros and cons of the maxim compared to the MG42, to which I think you will agree.


Please explain to me why, considering the above, you think it is a bad idea for the maxim to be able to stop axis blobs? Why is it that the early game blobbing of grenadiers should go unpunished, when conscript/rifle blobbing is considered bad micro and should be punishable in a harsh manner?

1 Jul 2015, 23:02 PM
#426
avatar of Fuzz
Donator 11

Posts: 98

Can we see some replays of people getting completely shut down by Mgs? I primarily play USF and I'll admit they're not easy to deal with, but if you keep switching things up your opponent is eventually going to make a mistake and create an opening for you. Soviets still have plenty of ways to deal with MG spam.

Honestly, playing as Ostheer is much more enjoyable now because of the change. Mgs are reliable, and losing one is devastating. A 20-40 mp increase might be in order though.
1 Jul 2015, 23:29 PM
#428
avatar of THTCookieCrumbles

Posts: 26

This thread is amazing! I love all of this! It's like being in a noob 4v4 game in which they call GG after losing kubel to poor micro.
Where ppl can't see past one mistake and just man up and keep fighting.
Instead everybody complains and acts like everything is in their favourite factions favour. ALL THE RNG IS AGAINST ME, SHERMANS ONE SHOTS EVERY GREN, RIFLE NADES MYYYGOOOOD......

PPL there is a thing called RNG, luck, human mistakes...

IMO this patch has made the game more interesting, and the mg42 is good as it is now.

The problem for me is when you play USF and you are having a hard time, you just wish you had other options. You think, "I sure wish i could also build a mortar or a sniper or even a mg". So you kinda get sucked into a repetitive opening. Which is boring especially when you are on a losing streak.

It's just sad that we have to say: "Well just learn to flank" or "Make it all more expensive".


Conclusion(imo): Bad USF faction design
1 Jul 2015, 23:41 PM
#429
avatar of m00nch1ld
Donator 11

Posts: 641 | Subs: 1



PPL there is a thing called RNG, luck, human mistakes...



no such thing. theres only balance. everything else is as it should be
2 Jul 2015, 00:29 AM
#430
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779



The developers are proving my point yet I am the one who doesn't want to understand? Are you by chance living in an Egyptian river?

As the great Moonchild once posted:

" :rofl: " - Moonchild




I have already made a list of the pros and cons of the maxim compared to the MG42, to which I think you will agree.


Please explain to me why, considering the above, you think it is a bad idea for the maxim to be able to stop axis blobs? Why is it that the early game blobbing of grenadiers should go unpunished, when conscript/rifle blobbing is considered bad micro and should be punishable in a harsh manner?



I don't mind if it is made to traditional MG style.
But have an ultra fast pickup, rotate, setup, and 6 men, with good arc of fire, is FUCK NO.

More funny of that WW1, most heavy and clumsy MG, having the highest mobility.

Soviet have enough crazy cheesy, anti-blob gimmick. They don't need more.
2 Jul 2015, 01:11 AM
#431
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Soviets have Su-76, Demo charges, 120mm for blobs. Soviets having good MG is not represent reality.
2 Jul 2015, 04:51 AM
#434
avatar of WiFiDi
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3293

hey guys what part of having a discussion involves slinging subtle insults, name calling (and awful puns :P) at each other??? Got any ideas cause i can't think of shit. o_O (speaking to 2 certain individuals. ;))

/back on topic

2 Jul 2015, 05:36 AM
#435
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3



In 1v1, you can flank. In 2v2+, there are always more MG42 waiting for you.


You would need 6 HMGs on minsk pocket and 5 on Kharkov to cover every flanking route and even then you still can use smoke to blind HMGS and move behind their arc of fire.
You can move from smoke to smoke and throw grenades at every HMG that is repositioning due long setup, if you have no units to screen your HMG its either retreat or risk a wipe.
2 Jul 2015, 06:22 AM
#436
avatar of Specialka

Posts: 144



You would need 6 HMGs on minsk pocket and 5 on Kharkov to cover every flanking route and even then you still can use smoke to blind HMGS and move behind their arc of fire.
You can move from smoke to smoke and throw grenades at every HMG that is repositioning due long setup, if you have no units to screen your HMG its either retreat or risk a wipe.


What if I told you there were at least 5 MG42 from the 2 Ostheer player combined? With ofc Grens and sniper and Pak? You can smoke all you want (15 ammo per smoke). You just can't kill the MGs. You take too much time and dmg to kill one MG, the others MG just rotate and suppress you.
2 Jul 2015, 06:42 AM
#437
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3



What if I told you ....


Stop writing like Katitoff :snfPeter:

Please provide a replay, I'm sure you can get some tips on how to win HMG spammer game.
2 Jul 2015, 06:47 AM
#438
avatar of Specialka

Posts: 144



Stop writing like Katitoff :snfPeter:

Please provide a replay, I'm sure you can get some tips on how to win HMG spammer game.


Sure sure.

http://coh2chart.com/

Click the 2v2 tab.

Kthxbye fanboy.
2 Jul 2015, 06:50 AM
#439
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440



Stop writing like Katitoff :snfPeter:

Please provide a replay, I'm sure you can get some tips on how to win HMG spammer game.


dude, you didn't see the von ivan's 7 MG build? Someone posted a replay a few days ago
2 Jul 2015, 07:22 AM
#440
avatar of MoerserKarL
Donator 22

Posts: 1108



dude, you didn't see the von ivan's 7 MG build? Someone posted a replay a few days ago


and? you didn't see sprice's 6 pathfinders build. whats the point?


Increase the price of the HMG to 260 or 280, move it to t0 and its fine
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