Grens...
2 Mar 2015, 18:30 PM
#81
Posts: 1225
Soviet T1/T2 with call-ins actually allows for stronger synergies than OH T1/T2 into call-ins, the possible exception being Mech Assault as it affords retarded early offensive power with the HT/StuG-E at no additional tech cost. That being said, both approaches are perfectly viable.
2 Mar 2015, 20:08 PM
#82
Posts: 1705
They are not supposed to, close range is their intended weakness.
You have pios and MG42 to make it difficult/less rewarding to close range on them.
Also, rifles aren't 240mp, they have all the right to be better, if anything the question should be why penals are so weak at range while ALL other carbine prifle weapons are still effective at longer ranges, garands, M1 carbines, G43, all of them excel at short range and mid, but are still potent at long.
Grenspam is not supposed to stand up against rifles by design.
Some reminder for you:
Completely misread my point.Its fine they are weak at close,but they should be able to do heavy dmg if enemy tries to close head on without cover.Right now they can't,and thats why their long range advantage is no advantage at all.
Well mg42 just can't do its job,and don't insult us by suggesting pios.
2 Mar 2015, 20:11 PM
#83
Posts: 1705
Ultimately if relic doesn't fix something this patch,this shit faction is finished.
2 Mar 2015, 20:19 PM
#84
Posts: 1484
Completely misread my point.Its fine they are weak at close,but they should be able to do heavy dmg if enemy tries to close head on without cover.Right now they can't,and thats why their long range advantage is no advantage at all.
Well mg42 just can't do its job,and don't insult us by suggesting pios.
Dude what the hell are you talking about? Gren LMG shred infantry from ranges if there is no cover and trying to close in (ea Shocks). You really need to upload a replay cause majority of your Ostheer rants make no sense. Thanks.
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2 Mar 2015, 20:23 PM
#85
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
He's referring to what Luvnest said earlier, most of the maps are so small and cluttered with cover that the long range advantage of gren's almost never matters.
On Steppes you might be sitting pretty, but on Eddlebruck your going to get face raped by BAR rifleman and shocks.
On Steppes you might be sitting pretty, but on Eddlebruck your going to get face raped by BAR rifleman and shocks.
2 Mar 2015, 20:27 PM
#86
Posts: 1705
Dude what the hell are you talking about? Gren LMG shred infantry from ranges if there is no cover and trying to close in (ea Shocks). You really need to upload a replay cause majority of your Ostheer rants make no sense. Thanks.
Dude read carefully,i meant earlygame when ost struggles most.Vanilla grens can't do anything to stop enemy from closing,and thats why its long range style doesn't work.
US light vehicle will be on top of you even before u can get more than 1-2 lmgs.
2 Mar 2015, 20:28 PM
#87
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
Dude read carefully,i meant earlygame when ost struggles most.Vanilla grens can't do anything to stop enemy from closing,and thats why its long range style doesn't work.
US light vehicle will be on top of you even before u can get more than 1-2 lmgs.
Must be why they have MG42 in the same buildings as grenadiers.
March deployment patch is long gone, gren only meta died at the end of vanila.
Adapt or extinct.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
2 Mar 2015, 20:29 PM
#88
Posts: 1705
Must be why they have MG42 in the same buildings as grenadiers.
Must be why they gave ineutralizemg42buttons to both rifles and cons,must be why popcornsprayer fails so bad at its job.If it did its job,current ost performance would not be what it is would it?
2 Mar 2015, 20:30 PM
#89
Posts: 1705
Adapt or extinct.
Yes yes i am noob,only spam a move grens.What happened to pros in tourney,failure to adapt?
2 Mar 2015, 20:31 PM
#90
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Must be why they have MG42 in the same buildings as grenadiers.
March deployment patch is long gone, gren only meta died at the end of vanila.
Adapt or extinct.
Fun fact:
Every single post WFA balance problem, excluding the ones with Ostheer had root at OKW.
How exactly do these two things coexist in your head.
2 Mar 2015, 20:36 PM
#91
Posts: 1484
Dude read carefully,i meant earlygame when ost struggles most.Vanilla grens can't do anything to stop enemy from closing,and thats why its long range style doesn't work.
US light vehicle will be on top of you even before u can get more than 1-2 lmgs.
I still don't understand what you meant by Grens cant stop enemy from closing in. Grens excel at ranges, either you drop models like flies from ranges or retreat if your opponent closes in.
I will actually agree with you that USF light vehciles destroy Ostheer. M20 car and HT are just a nightmare for Ostheer. BUT, you should watch Dane's replays and see how pros handle these situations.
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2 Mar 2015, 20:43 PM
#92
Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8
How exactly do these two things coexist in your head.
Good question.
How tiering costs and heavy tank call-ins having no disadvantages isn't contradicting with scrubs being in denial about MG42 hmmmmmmmmm...
You tell me.
Or better don't, because I'm talking competitive game modes, which are 1v1 and 2v2.
Play them first, get a clue about REAL problems and then flood ALL threads as axis apologist.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
2 Mar 2015, 20:43 PM
#93
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Most of the maps in the game in 1's and 2's are far to small for the long range advantage of Grens to matter when with the LMG42. If a enemy can just walk right around a corner and be in your face your not going to have a chance to kill models.
If grens had a ability to take advantage of their long range power than they would be fine, but the rotation maps don't allow that to happen 90% of the time.
If grens had a ability to take advantage of their long range power than they would be fine, but the rotation maps don't allow that to happen 90% of the time.
2 Mar 2015, 20:48 PM
#94
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Good question.
How tiering costs and heavy tank call-ins having no disadvantages isn't contradicting with scrubs being in denial about MG42 hmmmmmmmmm...
You tell me.
Or better don't, because I'm talking competitive game modes, which are 1v1 and 2v2.
Play them first, get a clue about REAL problems and then flood ALL threads as axis apologist.
I play 2v2 more than any other game mode, but feel free to continue flaming and straw manning. It's not like a mod literally just told you to be respectful once already today.
The person your responding to hate a legitimate complaint, telling them to adapt or die is just intellectually lazy and you would throw an absolute shitfit It I told you that in response to your complaints about OKW.
2 Mar 2015, 21:27 PM
#95
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Dangerous ideas in here. I'd agree that Ost needs something vs USF. The proposed idea of the non-doc G43 is that the Grens will completely overshadow the Conscripts which, in turn, would need a buff.
This sounds like a very win-win scenario to me.
2 Mar 2015, 21:31 PM
#96
Posts: 1637
Grens need something. But giving them a 5th man would require a TON of reworking of other things. Their DPS per model would need to be adjusted. The relationship with rifles would need to be adjusted (Rifles getting worse vet and later vet) their relationship to conscripts etc etc.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
2 Mar 2015, 22:31 PM
#97
Posts: 134
Rifles cost 280mp.
Reinforce for 4x28=112mp.
112 is 40% of 280.
Grens cost 240mp.
Reinforce for 3x30=90mp.
90 is 37,5% of 240.
Universal reinforce formula aims to give unit reinforce cost to full for 40% of total worth(less for weapon teams as not all members are combat potent), so following that, grens are slightly underpriced when reinforcing, but that balances out by them having 7 pop instead of 6 for other 240mp units.
when looking at it that way its true..
but i try to look at it this way: when you are buying a new rifleman squad you pay 56 mp per model and when buying a new gren squad you pay 60 mp per model. and when comparing the fire power you get for your manpower you are getting a much better deal when buying rifleman.
3 Mar 2015, 07:25 AM
#98
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Vanilla grens can't do anything to stop enemy from closing,and thats why its long range style doesn't work.
And why would anyone think that HMG 42 can? Its performance it's just ridiculous, even USF HMG supresses faster....
Gren spam with a sdkfz following them it's a more solid tactics and recomended for the actual state of the game, but this ain't working so good on maps with buildings ...that are filled with all kind of hmgs... Of course you can build t1 mortars that are quite competent but this will affect your gren spam. Because you really have to spam them hard.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
3 Mar 2015, 07:39 AM
#99
Posts: 431 | Subs: 1
I strongly disagree with you. Grenz are not weak at all... In fact if you micro them well and together you can easily win con or rifles in the end you have mg42 which easily counter any rifle or con squad.
All upgrades on grenz are really good and in mid game bite allies good. G43 rape, it really should be doctrinal.
All upgrades on grenz are really good and in mid game bite allies good. G43 rape, it really should be doctrinal.
3 Mar 2015, 09:11 AM
#100
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
G43 rape, it really should be doctrinal.
But it is... you mean lmg42?
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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