hello everyone.
I would like to ask/suggest relic regarding the retreat modifiers on units for both factions. Reading the patch notes ive seen the pgrens have been nerfed and infantry in general has been recieving tweaks thorughout the patches, however one thing that has concerned me is the damage units take while they are retreating.
kv8 for example will burn vetted infantry on retreat with no problems and flamers in general are so much more powerfull in coh2. I have no problem with kv8 or flamers doing insane damage as long as it creates a strategic option but I would like to suggest lowering the recieved damage from flames on retreat to near 0 (same as vcoh). In a firefight a dedicated tank like kv8 should do awesome damage to inf BUT not to units that are on retreat or really low.
increasing the retreat modifiers will no doubt help in unit preservation for both high level and noobie players like myself.
retreat modifiers
15 May 2014, 10:22 AM
#1
Posts: 366
We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them
15 May 2014, 10:53 AM
#2
Posts: 680
Kv8 for example will burn vetted infantry on retreat with no problems and flamers in general are so much more powerfull in coh2. I have no problem with kv8 or flamers doing insane damage as long as it creates a strategic option but I would like to suggest lowering the recieved damage from flames on retreat to near 0 (same as vcoh). In a firefight a dedicated tank like kv8 should do awesome damage to inf BUT not to units that are on retreat or really low.
You should be wary about were you cap. If you cap a long way from your own HQ then kv-8 is gonna smoke you. I havent seen many kv-8s since the last patch as the damage on retreating units was lowered. But I am fine with kv-8s chasing and killing units who cap to deep in to enemy territory.
15 May 2014, 10:56 AM
#3
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
And what in your opinion would the role of the KV8 (or flameht for that matter) be after it's made even more useless compared to normal tank guns?
15 May 2014, 10:57 AM
#4
Posts: 471
I would say that it's about right at the moment, thanks mainly to previous retreat-wipe specialist units like Pgrens and Shocks being less effective in that role (shocks due to only doing real damage at knife range and pgrens being less effective and less used overall).
As for the KV8, don't overextend and retreat anything you don't want to lose when you see it coming.
As for the KV8, don't overextend and retreat anything you don't want to lose when you see it coming.
15 May 2014, 10:59 AM
#5
Posts: 476
I agree with the general idea of buffing retreat modifiers , especially against flame weopons. With a bit of rebalancing, that would not only make retreat situations better, but every usecase for flamers.
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
15 May 2014, 11:06 AM
#6
Posts: 366
And what in your opinion would the role of the KV8 (or flameht for that matter) be after it's made even more useless compared to normal tank guns?
in a firefight or normal engagements the kv8 or flamers should do normal damage like they do now.. its on RETREAT thats the problem. Kv8 is a dedicated anti infantry tank and it should own inf BUT not a unit that is on retreat or is really low health. Same goes for flamerht or flamers in general. Units that are fighting should take immense damage from flamers.. but not the ones on retreat
We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them
15 May 2014, 11:16 AM
#7
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
in a firefight or normal engagements the kv8 or flamers should do normal damage like they do now.. its on RETREAT thats the problem. Kv8 is a dedicated anti infantry tank and it should own inf BUT not a unit that is on retreat or is really low health. Same goes for flamerht or flamers in general. Units that are fighting should take immense damage from flamers.. but not the ones on retreat
Tank main guns also get no penalty against retreaters except for a minor accuracy decrease, their only problem with killing retreaters is the penalty to scatter they get if they start moving. Firing through obstacles and chasing down runners by moving alongside them are the only two things that these two flamer vehicles do better than other vehicles, and you want to remove one of these advantages and turn it into a disadvantage.
15 May 2014, 11:29 AM
#8
Posts: 366
Tank main guns also get no penalty against retreaters except for a minor accuracy decrease, their only problem with killing retreaters is the penalty to scatter they get if they start moving. Firing through obstacles and chasing down runners by moving alongside them are the only two things that these two flamer vehicles do better than other vehicles, and you want to remove one of these advantages and turn it into a disadvantage.
dude...
not only flamers. I suggest increasing retreat modifiers in general for all units both factions. i just use kv8 as example
We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them
15 May 2014, 11:37 AM
#9
Posts: 522
I agree with the OP, infantry in general are getting squad wiped without the user's control far more than I like. Back in coh 1 I could blame myself for losing a squad. In coh 2 I must pray to the RNG god for every bullet fired and every tank round shot. The number of squads getting wiped on retreat can be reduced imo.
15 May 2014, 11:38 AM
#10
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
dude...
not only flamers. I suggest increasing retreat modifiers in general for all units both factions. i just use kv8 as example
There is no such thing as a "received scatter" modifier in the engine. So any accuracy modifier (which makes up a large part of the retreat modifiers right now) is not going to affect tanks except for their MGs. Received damage modifiers will penalize tanks and small arms alike, but because they more or less have to be higher than 50% just to make a tank shot not outright kill infantry units, they would effectively make small arms unable to kill anything that is retreating ever again. I'm sure everyone would just love trying to deal with soviet snipers (who in turn would not be getting affected as much by these changes because they don't work through damage values so they'd only suffer the accuracy penalty) when they'd turn unkillable whenever they hit retreat.
15 May 2014, 11:51 AM
#11
Posts: 366
There is no such thing as a "received scatter" modifier in the engine. So any accuracy modifier (which makes up a large part of the retreat modifiers right now) is not going to affect tanks except for their MGs. Received damage modifiers will penalize tanks and small arms alike, but because they more or less have to be higher than 50% just to make a tank shot not outright kill infantry units, they would effectively make small arms unable to kill anything that is retreating ever again. I'm sure everyone would just love trying to deal with soviet snipers (who in turn would not be getting affected as much by these changes because they don't work through damage values so they'd only suffer the accuracy penalty) when they'd turn unkillable whenever they hit retreat.
i dont think you are getting the point here.
dude im just asking that units should not be killed on retreat so easily. Almost all units seem to survive well from cannon fire but just get insta-torched even on RETREAT from flame based weapons . This shouldent happen. Losing veteren infantry on retreat big big hit and Im simply suggesting to reduce that chance whether it be flamer ht or kv8.
soviet snipers are already unkillable supermen in good hands since they cant be countersniped. but thats a totaly different topic.
edit** if relic want to fix it.. i think they will find a way
We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them
15 May 2014, 12:22 PM
#12
Posts: 710
I don't agree with the OP at all.
Example about the flamers isn't just right. It seems that you need to work with your game observation if this is a problem. Most likely KV8 shouldn't come as a surprise for you. And if it does, then Soviet player has just done something right.
If you are aware that there's KV8 on the field, then you should be extra careful on capping places with your precious units unsupported.
And yes, I do understand what you mean, normal guns don't effect retreating units that well as flames. But this just doesn't seem like big issue.
Example about the flamers isn't just right. It seems that you need to work with your game observation if this is a problem. Most likely KV8 shouldn't come as a surprise for you. And if it does, then Soviet player has just done something right.
If you are aware that there's KV8 on the field, then you should be extra careful on capping places with your precious units unsupported.
And yes, I do understand what you mean, normal guns don't effect retreating units that well as flames. But this just doesn't seem like big issue.
15 May 2014, 12:23 PM
#13
Posts: 165
i dont think you are getting the point here.
dude im just asking that units should not be killed on retreat so easily. Almost all units seem to survive well from cannon fire but just get insta-torched even on RETREAT from flame based weapons . This shouldent happen. Losing veteren infantry on retreat big big hit and Im simply suggesting to reduce that chance whether it be flamer ht or kv8.
soviet snipers are already unkillable supermen in good hands since they cant be countersniped. but thats a totaly different topic.
edit** if relic want to fix it.. i think they will find a way
I don't see a problem with retreat. If you see a KV-8 coming and you have no AT around ... get the hell out of there. IF you are hanging around with a low health squad down a man ... you are dead. Makes sense to me ... you are retreating to your base ... turning your back on the enemy and running full tilt without regards to your own safety ... and it's F'N burning fiery oil!!
15 May 2014, 12:34 PM
#14
Posts: 366
wow ... just wow.. you people seem to have no problem with veteren units being killed on retreat so easily.
its no use.. i request some admin to please lock and delete this thread.
its no use.. i request some admin to please lock and delete this thread.
We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them
15 May 2014, 12:39 PM
#15
Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4
As far as I can remember flame weapons effectively ignore retreat modifiers because they don't have accuracy, they just do area of effect damage. What could help however is making it so that retreating units cannot be flame crit. Anything else would be impossible or would screw up too many other things in the game, and even my proposal might not be possible.
15 May 2014, 12:41 PM
#16
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
flamers have 11 accuracy. the retreat modifier is 0.4 to accuracy. small arms weapons have less than 1 accuracy.
15 May 2014, 12:54 PM
#17
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
wow ... just wow.. you people seem to have no problem with veteren units being killed on retreat so easily.
its no use.. i request some admin to please lock and delete this thread.
That's right, we don't. With the exception of soviet mines and the ISU152, losing infantry squads (vet or no vet, it does not matter) is because of failure by the user.
15 May 2014, 13:04 PM
#18
Posts: 710
wow ... just wow.. you people seem to have no problem with veteren units being killed on retreat so easily.
its no use.. i request some admin to please lock and delete this thread.
Why would you ask for an opinion if you can't take the opinion?
It just seems that your suggestion is unnecessary for most people.
15 May 2014, 14:12 PM
#19
Posts: 219
I don't agree with the OP at all.
Example about the flamers isn't just right. It seems that you need to work with your game observation if this is a problem. Most likely KV8 shouldn't come as a surprise for you. And if it does, then Soviet player has just done something right.
If you are aware that there's KV8 on the field, then you should be extra careful on capping places with your precious units unsupported.
And yes, I do understand what you mean, normal guns don't effect retreating units that well as flames. But this just doesn't seem like big issue.
You must really like fire...
15 May 2014, 14:22 PM
#20
Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8
dude...
not only flamers. I suggest increasing retreat modifiers in general for all units both factions. i just use kv8 as example
]
Except, there is nothing wrong with it.
If you overextend your infantry, you will loose it.
Retreat was never supposed to be free "out of fail" card where angels descend upon your troops and with that divine intervention allow them to come out unharmed from the avalanche of bullets and flames.
Retreat makes your squads harder to kill for small arms and thats about it. If you've lost squad to anything else on retreat, it means you overextended or were successfully flanked.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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