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Shocktroops at 1CP

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27 Dec 2013, 03:10 AM
#161
avatar of ardenx

Posts: 19

1 CP is to early for the best infantry unit in the entire game to come out. 2 CP is more reasonable.


This. Way too much Shocks spam early game. 2 CP would make Shocks and Guards pretty much perfect, and still keep the early game Soviet edge.
27 Dec 2013, 18:37 PM
#162
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

I have to agree with those supporting the notion that 1 CP Shocks should be changed immediately, the fact that they can come out so quickly and tear through grens like scissors through paper is stupid for the early game.
27 Dec 2013, 18:46 PM
#163
avatar of cataclaw

Posts: 523

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Dec 2013, 18:37 PMVonIvan
I have to agree with those supporting the notion that 1 CP Shocks should be changed immediately, the fact that they can come out so quickly and tear through grens like scissors through paper is stupid for the early game.


QFT
29 Dec 2013, 00:53 AM
#164
avatar of akula

Posts: 589

god shocks are hard to kill, they are made of stone or something!
raw
29 Dec 2013, 11:41 AM
#165
avatar of raw

Posts: 644

2 CP Guards is equivalent to removing Guards from the game.
2 GP Shocks, sure whatever, they're only good for lolrallying vs. noobs anyway.
29 Dec 2013, 11:54 AM
#166
avatar of Captain_Frog

Posts: 248

The problem is that once that first Shock unit is on the field (Anywhere within the 3 - 5 minute mark) they can essentially force a good portion of your units off of the field.

Giving up ground at such an early stage in the game is very damaging, and you are essentially on the back foot for the remainder of the game because of one unit. Shock Troops at 1CP is just utterly ridiculous, I don't really know why people are arguing for Shocks at 1CP.
29 Dec 2013, 12:05 PM
#167
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1613



Russian Grenades in this game overall feel stronger than their German counterparts.

In most cases it is probably balance (impact vs timer, mass grenades vs one grenade), but regardless the PZG bundle grenade is more comparable to a Guard / ST grenade, let alone a Penal satchel charge.


Soviets always have more ammo to drop 'nades than the germans.
29 Dec 2013, 18:40 PM
#168
avatar of ApeMen

Posts: 65

the problem with shocktroops and guards is not that they are op,
only the time they hit the field is way too early because they conters everything you can have in the same time

or in other words the soviets have the conter even before germans can build it
29 Dec 2013, 18:51 PM
#169
avatar of link0

Posts: 337

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2013, 11:41 AMraw
2 CP Guards is equivalent to removing Guards from the game.
2 GP Shocks, sure whatever, they're only good for lolrallying vs. noobs anyway.


What?

You do realize that shocks and guards were always 2cp before right?
29 Dec 2013, 19:00 PM
#170
avatar of JohanSchwarz

Posts: 409

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2013, 18:51 PMlink0


What?

You do realize that shocks and guards were always 2cp before right?


Judging by his comment, it's pretty clear he's never played the game.
29 Dec 2013, 19:29 PM
#171
avatar of ApeMen

Posts: 65



Judging by his comment, it's pretty clear he's never played the game.


this or he is one of these lowskill abusers who like to play early guards/shocktroops
29 Dec 2013, 19:29 PM
#172
avatar of FathersSon

Posts: 21

I don't know if this point has been raised before
AND
I know this game is not balanced around team games.

BUT let me add this anyway, even if it might already have been mentioned:
At least in 2vs2 assGrens are spammed heavily, and shocks are the only thing other than maxim spam to stop this. In 2on2, it's usually assGrens and bunkers at chokes into flamer HT. Shocks give you a very small window, not to stop this but to not get dominated.
I don't know how this behaves in 1on1, but team games favour germans more. From 2on2, where it's slightly noticable to 4vs4, where Ostheer dominates.
I really like my shocks at 1 CP there.

In 1on1 I only play Ostheer, in teamgames only soviet.

So one question to those who really play both sides in 1on1 and know both sides' pain in this matchup:

Are shocks at 1CP that much harder to counter for Germans compared to the difficulty Soviets have with 0 CP AssGrens?
29 Dec 2013, 19:32 PM
#173
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

I don't know if this point has been raised before
BUT let me add this anyway, even if it might already have been mentioned:
At least in 2vs2 assGrens are spammed heavily, and shocks are the only thing other than maxim spam to stop this. In 2on2, it's usually assGrens and bunkers at chokes into flamer HT. Shocks give you a very small window, not to stop this but to not get dominated.
I don't know how this behaves in 1on1, but team games favour germans more. From 2on2, where it's slightly noticable to 4vs4, where Ostheer dominates.
I really like my shocks at 1 CP there.


Agrens are very easy to handle with either T1 or T2. They just prevent conscript spam, even there it is still possible on some maps. If you are relying on elite troops to take out Agrens you really need to go back and learn to use the fundamentals of the game.

I play plenty of mutli player (2v2+) Agrens are used on occasionally in my experience.
29 Dec 2013, 19:39 PM
#174
avatar of FathersSon

Posts: 21

I don't take them out with that. I need Maxims before I am at 1 CP and often I have to consider to get a Zis first to take out bunkers and prepare for the flamer HT.
That is only team games, I might add. I was at place 400 in ladder in 2on2 (dropped to something like 500 to 800? don't know). This might not be considered top tier but I think I am far advanced over "learning to use fundamentals"

edit:
but shocks do provide an edge after aGrens were on the advance.
29 Dec 2013, 19:53 PM
#175
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003



Soviets always have more ammo to drop 'nades than the germans.


Only begginer players. If you dont lay mines, you lost tank battle.
29 Dec 2013, 20:37 PM
#176
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2013, 19:53 PMAradan


Only begginer players. If you dont lay mines, you lost tank battle.


This +1 if your floating muni as the soviets your not doing it right.

Assgrens get stomped on by Penals. Shocks arent required. You can also flank bunkers with m3s and demo them quickly or flamer them ever so slowly.

Shocks would be fine at 2CP. With proper micro you can do the same thing cheaper with zombie penals.

Zombie penals get vet 2 really fast and the merging scripts can protect the penals with at nades.

Captainsprice did real well with penals to shocks pre patch anyway...
29 Dec 2013, 22:14 PM
#177
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

I don't take them out with that. I need Maxims before I am at 1 CP and often I have to consider to get a Zis first to take out bunkers and prepare for the flamer HT.
That is only team games, I might add. I was at place 400 in ladder in 2on2 (dropped to something like 500 to 800? don't know). This might not be considered top tier but I think I am far advanced over "learning to use fundamentals"

edit:
but shocks do provide an edge after aGrens were on the advance.


How can he also have bunkers? Of course if he has bunkers and Agrens you need to apply more pressure. You don't need a zis to take out bunkers you should have other options. You can use flames or mortars (slowly) or guards, even penals with satchels. Again if he is dumping munitions (into emplacements in this case) he does not have them available for flame ht.
29 Dec 2013, 22:54 PM
#178
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003



This +1 if your floating muni as the soviets your not doing it right.

Assgrens get stomped on by Penals. Shocks arent required. You can also flank bunkers with m3s and demo them quickly or flamer them ever so slowly.

Shocks would be fine at 2CP. With proper micro you can do the same thing cheaper with zombie penals.

Zombie penals get vet 2 really fast and the merging scripts can protect the penals with at nades.

Captainsprice did real well with penals to shocks pre patch anyway...


G43 stomp penals in no time.
Most germas only spam grens blob and if you dont have shock troops, you have problem deal with this blob. But sometimes i have lucky satchel throw. :-)
30 Dec 2013, 00:16 AM
#179
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1613

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2013, 19:53 PMAradan


Only begginer players. If you dont lay mines, you lost tank battle.


Or you can get T2 and drop 'nades then go for the Is-2 like CaptainPrice did against me last week. It worked, he didn't planted much mines.
30 Dec 2013, 06:42 AM
#180
avatar of JohanSchwarz

Posts: 409

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2013, 22:54 PMAradan


G43 stomp penals in no time.
Most germas only spam grens blob and if you dont have shock troops, you have problem deal with this blob. But sometimes i have lucky satchel throw. :-)


120mm mortars are deadly against gren blob if you have them available. Katyushas are also really good if you went T4.
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