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Conscript PTRS AT-grenade ability

9 Apr 2022, 13:09 PM
#21
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

Ptrs cons are amazing, i use em all the time in 2v2. If u changed the AT nade ability they would prob be too strong

My opening build order for that cmdr:
Conscript, t1, penal, penal, penal, conscript, (upgrade 1st con to ptrs) muni cache

U upgrade the 2nd con to ptrs around the time medium tank hit the field. Use the penals for ur infantry fighting force


Without choosing a commander I could go for:

Conscript, t1, penal, penal, penal, penal, (upgrade one penal to ptrs) muni cache

Using the cons for Hoorah + normal AT-grenade to have a way faster snare than PTRS cons snare and the lower ranged penal AT-satchel for slowed tanks. I can now combine any commander, for example NKVD for flame tank with vet1 "Inspire Infantry" to get those AT-satchels in. Commisar abilities help to win infantry fights. NKVDs AT-overwatch is a real strong AT source in addition that is way better than the BombRun in the late game. Especially useful vs the big cats.

I don't see this build as such special that it is worth choosing a commander for it. Maybe it was before penals got third PTRS with higher accuracy for all PTRS(in comparison to PRTS cons). AT is the only thing this commander can do, but other commanders don't do worse at that aspect plus having better AI tools.
9 Apr 2022, 16:15 PM
#22
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324



Without choosing a commander I could go for:

Conscript, t1, penal, penal, penal, penal, (upgrade one penal to ptrs) muni cache

Using the cons for Hoorah + normal AT-grenade to have a way faster snare than PTRS cons snare and the lower ranged penal AT-satchel for slowed tanks. I can now combine any commander, for example NKVD for flame tank with vet1 "Inspire Infantry" to get those AT-satchels in. Commisar abilities help to win infantry fights. NKVDs AT-overwatch is a real strong AT source in addition that is way better than the BombRun in the late game. Especially useful vs the big cats.

So in this scenario ur getting at-nades and mollys for ur 1 conscript squad? Waste

AT overwatch is better against tanks, but can use the bombing run to delete buildings too. Can still damage infantry as well, decrewed 2 paks with 1 ptab bombing run last night


I don't see this build as such special that it is worth choosing a commander for it. Maybe it was before penals got third PTRS with higher accuracy for all PTRS(in comparison to PRTS cons). AT is the only thing this commander can do, but other commanders don't do worse at that aspect plus having better AI tools.

Higher accuracy? THe cons arent going to miss tanks anyway. If ur talking about that slightly better performance against infantry, whoopty do u took a penal squad and gave it ptrs. In my build order all my penals stay in AI role

Not saying the commander is the best, cuz he's not at all. But i think u are mistaken about ptrs consrcripts
10 Apr 2022, 12:18 PM
#23
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919


So in this scenario ur getting at-nades and mollys for ur 1 conscript squad? Waste

AT overwatch is better against tanks, but can use the bombing run to delete buildings too. Can still damage infantry as well, decrewed 2 paks with 1 ptab bombing run last night


Yeah that is the strange thing about AT BombRun. It is exeptional strong vs ambient buildings, quite good vs packed infantry / weapon teams and rather bad vs tanks. You don't get what you expect but something different instead.



Higher accuracy? THe cons arent going to miss tanks anyway. If ur talking about that slightly better performance against infantry, whoopty do u took a penal squad and gave it ptrs. In my build order all my penals stay in AI role


PTRS cons can miss Kubel, Hetzer or vet1 221/222/223. With vet1 "combat blitz"/"Blitzkrieg tactics" ability activated they can even miss a PZIV. PTRS penals will never miss any kind of vehicle/tank. So the higher accuracy is not useable versus infantry alone.
10 Apr 2022, 14:09 PM
#24
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324


PTRS cons can miss Kubel, Hetzer or vet1 221/222/223. With vet1 "combat blitz"/"Blitzkrieg tactics" ability activated they can even miss a PZIV. PTRS penals will never miss any kind of vehicle/tank. So the higher accuracy is not useable versus infantry alone.

Fine allow me to rephrase, they are ALMOST never going to miss. And ur partially wrong about the p4/hetzer

Cons get +40% accuracy at vet 2, so unless they are somehow below vet 2 when a hetzer/blitzing p4 arrives (possible but unlikely) its impossible to miss

Their abilities more than make up for that tiny chance of miss certain units

11 Apr 2022, 12:57 PM
#25
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1197


So in this scenario ur getting at-nades and mollys for ur 1 conscript squad? Waste

AT overwatch is better against tanks, but can use the bombing run to delete buildings too. Can still damage infantry as well, decrewed 2 paks with 1 ptab bombing run last night


Higher accuracy? THe cons arent going to miss tanks anyway. If ur talking about that slightly better performance against infantry, whoopty do u took a penal squad and gave it ptrs. In my build order all my penals stay in AI role

Not saying the commander is the best, cuz he's not at all. But i think u are mistaken about ptrs consrcripts


The strength of the commander is not that cons are more accurate, but that cons are so expendable that it's ok to rush them in front of a fucking tank, lose half your squad, retreat to reinforce with 14mp a model whilst giving the axis player the beating of a lifetime. Especially if it's early game, and he only has a Panzer IV. 3 PTRS cons and he just lost his major power spike. Penals are way too costly (and way too good anti inf wise) to take on such a hard task of being the AT squad. The only saving grace for them is the mininuke they have against vehicles. If that were to be taken away, they would go back to being a very good early game semi elite anti inf unit (which I would be perfectly fine with).

I always equip this doctrine, because it's my ace in the hole whenever I feel like I am playing behind the axis players and know they are going to have a tank soon. Obviously it's not a first tier commander, but absolutely the perfect lifejacket style last resort.
11 Apr 2022, 13:13 PM
#26
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 786 | Subs: 1



The strength of the commander is not that cons are more accurate, but that cons are so expendable that it's ok to rush them in front of a fucking tank, lose half your squad, retreat to reinforce with 14mp a model whilst giving the axis player the beating of a lifetime. Especially if it's early game, and he only has a Panzer IV. 3 PTRS cons and he just lost his major power spike. Penals are way too costly (and way too good anti inf wise) to take on such a hard task of being the AT squad. The only saving grace for them is the mininuke they have against vehicles. If that were to be taken away, they would go back to being a very good early game semi elite anti inf unit (which I would be perfectly fine with).

I always equip this doctrine, because it's my ace in the hole whenever I feel like I am playing behind the axis players and know they are going to have a tank soon. Obviously it's not a first tier commander, but absolutely the perfect lifejacket style last resort.


where are you paying 14mp for a conscript squad? they still cost 20 per reinforce

3 ptrs cons doesn't 1shot a panzer 4 (especially not a p4J)
penal ptrs is expensive but sometimes your infantry just gets beaten late game by the enemy infantry, or the utility becomes valuable

you will not kill a tank with ptrs conscripts that hasn't been mortally wounded beforehand, or the enemy is simply bad for it to happen. Matter of fact tanks like the panzer 4, tiger or king tiger (or any other anti infantry tank) will bleed your troops out of cover
11 Apr 2022, 13:28 PM
#27
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1197

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Apr 2022, 13:13 PMKatukov


where are you paying 14mp for a conscript squad? they still cost 20 per reinforce

3 ptrs cons doesn't 1shot a panzer 4 (especially not a p4J)
penal ptrs is expensive but sometimes your infantry just gets beaten late game by the enemy infantry, or the utility becomes valuable

you will not kill a tank with ptrs conscripts that hasn't been mortally wounded beforehand, or the enemy is simply bad for it to happen. Matter of fact tanks like the panzer 4, tiger or king tiger (or any other anti infantry tank) will bleed your troops out of cover


You are right, 20 mp is the reinforce cost for cons. On every other count you are mistaken or have a reading comprehension problem.

I never claimed that 3 ptrs cons 1shot a panzer 4. Not even close. What I said was that they have the utility to become a better AT squad than Penals will ever be. 3 cons with hoorah, snaring ability and 2 shots with PTRS each will rape the tank hard enough to allow the ATG to finish it off. I know because I have killed thousands of P4s, Tigers and KT without having dedicated Tank Destroyers ready. So what if the enemy bleeds your cons? They are cons ffs, that's their job to die cheaply for their utility.
13 Apr 2022, 10:26 AM
#28
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

So what if the enemy bleeds your cons? They are cons ffs, that's their job to die cheaply for their utility.


Problem is that they die like flies until reaching vet3. Vet0 target size 1.1 or vet1-2 target size 1 means they will die to any fire incoming. 20mp reinforcement is not exactly cheap if you loose them a lot. Both conscript upgrades (PTRS and PPsH) have the problem that they don't synergize very well with the playing style of cons. Cons are dependent on building sandbags for green cover. PTRS AT-grenade ability and PPsH needs you to get close, mostly out in the open without cover.
With the introduction of 7th man upgrade which locks out PTRS and PPsH upgrade there is not much of a reason to go for PTRS cons anymore. Con squad with 7th soldier is more versatile (you can recrew two team weapons or just merge more), durable (more likely to retain its vet) and really cheap to reinforce. In comparison to PTRS cons they retain the molotov in addition.

I rather go for 1-2 PTRS penals and cons with seven men. And that is nondoctrinal on top.
13 Apr 2022, 10:31 AM
#29
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1197



Problem is that they die like flies until reaching vet3. Vet0 target size 1.1 or vet1-2 target size 1 means they will die to any fire incoming. 20mp reinforcement is not exactly cheap if you loose them a lot. Both conscript upgrades (PTRS and PPsH) have the problem that they don't synergize very well with the playing style of cons. Cons are dependent on building sandbags for green cover. PTRS AT-grenade ability and PPsH needs you to get close, mostly out in the open without cover.
With the introduction of 7th man upgrade which locks out PTRS and PPsH upgrade there is not much of a reason to go for PTRS cons anymore. Con squad with 7th soldier is more versatile (you can recrew two team weapons or just merge more), durable (more likely to retain its vet) and really cheap to reinforce. In comparison to PTRS cons they retain the molotov in addition

I rather go for 1-2 PTRS penals and cons with seven men. And that is nondoctrinal on top.


It's ok i respect that, just a matter of different playstyles.

I would personally never give up the Penals anti-infanty abilities for increased AT, but that's just me. Obviously I never instapick this doctrine, only when I realize I am staying behind in the tank game and don't want to take any chances. In that case and only that, I go for PTRS cons.
13 Apr 2022, 18:02 PM
#30
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



Problem is that they die like flies until reaching vet3. Vet0 target size 1.1 or vet1-2 target size 1 means they will die to any fire incoming. 20mp reinforcement is not exactly cheap if you loose them a lot. Both conscript upgrades (PTRS and PPsH) have the problem that they don't synergize very well with the playing style of cons. Cons are dependent on building sandbags for green cover.

PTRS AT-grenade ability and PPsH needs you to get close, mostly out in the open without cover.

There's a reason they have camo. You're not using the ability correctly if you're being attacked while you're doing it

Its an ambush ability on a unit that has vehicle detection. The entire point is not to just sit out in the open

Its definitely a niche commander. But it has many strong features, and is a lot more viable in team games

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