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russian armor

120MM SOV mortar

28 Feb 2022, 04:59 AM
#1
avatar of Operator09

Posts: 80

What the *#^&$(* is this @#*()? if it's not wiped or doesn't kill anything it halves an entire squad hp with unbelievable accuracy?

Is this the reason why they nerfed it during the tournament?
MMX
28 Feb 2022, 05:15 AM
#2
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

Not sure if there were any other nerfs than removing the retreat function compared to live?
Anyway, it's fair to say that the 120mm is definitely on the stronger side and quite an upgrade to the regular mortar in terms of firepower. This however comes at the loss of the recon flare, so there's a trade-off at least. Since survivability is one of the main complaints towards the HM-38, I think the removal of retreat is actually a decent idea that not only adresses this, but also sets both mortars further apart. Would like to see this change making its way into the live game for sure, but we all know that's rather unlikely to happen.
28 Feb 2022, 12:20 PM
#3
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2022, 05:15 AMMMX
Not sure if there were any other nerfs than removing the retreat function compared to live?
Since survivability is one of the main complaints towards the HM-38, I think the removal of retreat is actually a decent idea that not only adresses this, but also sets both mortars further apart. Would like to see this change making its way into the live game for sure, but we all know that's rather unlikely to happen.

That's not actually a bad idea imho. The closest analogues are the ISG & pack howitzer and neither pack the firepower this doctrinal thing has, albeit they have better model sniping potential. Yes you can keep dodging it, but your luck will run out eventually.
28 Feb 2022, 13:20 PM
#4
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191

The closest analogues are the ISG and it doesn't pack the firepower this doctrinal thing has, albeit they have better model sniping potential. Yes you can keep dodging it, but your luck will run out eventually.



Yeah that's why OKW players main triple ISG bulletins every 1/3rd game I play 3v3 lmfao.Hilariously cancerous if he just sets it up next to his BHQ/PZHQ and just peppers you at long range for an entire game, although not exactly OP.Also it gains veterancy very easily.
28 Feb 2022, 14:39 PM
#5
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 760 | Subs: 1

"Since a 340 manpower (elite squad cost) mortar is very effective against static weapons and static infantry play, we decided that the 120mm mortar should instead fire blank rounds, to make it fair for us axis players"



120mm shells still drop slowly, they hard counter sitting ducks like they should, but are not effective against mobile infantry units. It's survivability already is hindered by the last nerfs it got, this means that rocket artillery can murder it reliably.


Also, the USF pack howi being inferior to the 120mm doesn't mean that the 120mm should be nerfed, it means that some bright soul gutted the pack howi and never compensated it in return. Expensive units need to have their cost reduced if their performance gets gutted
28 Feb 2022, 16:06 PM
#6
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2022, 14:39 PMKatukov
"Since a 340 manpower (elite squad cost) mortar is very effective against static weapons and static infantry play, we decided that the 120mm mortar should instead fire blank rounds, to make it fair for us axis players"



120mm shells still drop slowly, they hard counter sitting ducks like they should, but are not effective against mobile infantry units. It's survivability already is hindered by the last nerfs it got, this means that rocket artillery can murder it reliably.


Also, the USF pack howi being inferior to the 120mm doesn't mean that the 120mm should be nerfed, it means that some bright soul gutted the pack howi and never compensated it in return. Expensive units need to have their cost reduced if their performance gets gutted


Lmao I am sure you are the guy who spams 3-4 of those.

Remove retreat and the unit is fine.
28 Feb 2022, 17:10 PM
#7
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 760 | Subs: 1



Lmao I am sure you are the guy who spams 3-4 of those.

Remove retreat and the unit is fine.


People spend 1000 manpower into 100 range mortars with slightly better AoE and don't insta lose?
28 Feb 2022, 17:57 PM
#8
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2022, 17:10 PMKatukov


People spend 1000 manpower into 100 range mortars with slightly better AoE and don't insta lose?


Rank 1200 OKW can't beat Soviet with quad mortars
28 Feb 2022, 18:53 PM
#9
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 217

120mm mortars drop slower than the regular mortars?
28 Feb 2022, 19:14 PM
#10
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Feb 2022, 17:10 PMKatukov


People spend 1000 manpower into 100 range mortars with slightly better AoE and don't insta lose?


yea
1 Mar 2022, 00:15 AM
#11
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 238

I believe 120mm should have range and AOE nerf.
1 Mar 2022, 09:59 AM
#12
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 127

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2022, 00:15 AMReverb
I believe 120mm should have range and AOE nerf.

Sooo, its only selling points that make its cumbersome setup times+limited arc and slow ROF worth it?
Not that its perfectly balance as all things should be... The removal of its retreat button is more than justified, and it is enough to punish players who use it too aggressively (while we're at it can we do it to the rak too?) and build a bunch of them like dicks because all you need is a normal composition, and an opening in their lines and you can wreak havok on their entire setup.
1 Mar 2022, 17:40 PM
#13
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

remove retreat and its ability to keep one model on it and problem solved gg
1 Mar 2022, 22:29 PM
#14
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889

remove retreat and its ability to keep one model on it and problem solved gg

The 'one model' thing is something tied to the coding mechanics of the unit. Too difficult to change, hence why this thing is 5-man instead of the old 6-man. The 6-man one was practically impossible to knock out except with LEFH 18s.
1 Mar 2022, 22:46 PM
#15
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191

Way too many OST players on this thread getting their 2xMG42 2xPAK40 1xmortar combos countered by a dedicated anti-turtling mortar like the 120mm lmfaoo
2 Mar 2022, 05:38 AM
#16
avatar of Solar.

Posts: 21

I can't believe one unit countering all teams weapons is a problem. Learn to play axis and tournament players.
2 Mar 2022, 06:55 AM
#17
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

Way too many OST players on this thread getting their 2xMG42 2xPAK40 1xmortar combos countered by a dedicated anti-turtling mortar like the 120mm lmfaoo


Exactly the problem a 340mp mortar cannot possibly in terms of balance take care of all that,yes.
2 Mar 2022, 07:15 AM
#18
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 774

Wow, a unit that was considered totally useless outside 4v4 only a few patches ago is now OP. Thanks COH2 Balance Forum.
2 Mar 2022, 08:43 AM
#19
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 570

Wow, a unit that was considered totally useless outside 4v4 only a few patches ago is now OP. Thanks COH2 Balance Forum.

I wonder if it's just a meta thing tbh. And probably Guard Motor in particular.

I can imagine that dealing with T34-85s, strong inf and then strong mortar is annoying by now, seeing as it's the top pick commander for sovs 1v1.

However the 120mm is not in itself OP. It's possible to respond to its shots (unlike say an AVRE), and possible to counter attack into it and force retreat or decrew with a single unit.

How would people feel about swapping out the 120mm in that commander for something like airdropped guns? To synergise with guards and T34-85.

2 Mar 2022, 10:54 AM
#20
avatar of OKSpitfire

Posts: 118

I don't really play soviets, but didn't it already recieve a pretty signficant range nerf a while ago? I've found it to be way less obnoxious to deal with since then. Removing its ability to retreat as well might be going a bit too far.
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