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Some thoughts on OKW and their issues.

1 Apr 2021, 11:47 AM
#81
avatar of Geblobt

Posts: 213

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2021, 01:34 AMSpoof

Because it fits Volks thematically and historically. The 6th man upgrade is pretty goofy for a late war faction that's supposed to be resource starved, including human resources (looking at OKW popcap), the best upgrades available to Volks that fit the game and are somewhat immersive are the StG and MP40 upgrades.


Im not a fan of the 6th man too, but as far as i know there was no lack of soldiers even 1945. Experienced and trained Soldiers for sure, but they had enough young people to throw at the front. And in coh2 Volks are a mix of inexperienced new soldiers and older ones. Anyway i think we should go away from this stigma (allies mass low qualitiy units, axis high quality low number units). We get nothing of value from this game design imo.

About volks: The mp40 upgrade is way more interesting than the stg one. Its not as brainless and gives the unit a clear design (mid-near range squad compared to ok on every range). And with it Volks are actually able to to beat upgraded Sections/Cons/Rifle if you use them perfectly. With Stg Volks there is no range to even contest them.
Pip
1 Apr 2021, 16:01 PM
#82
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594



Im not a fan of the 6th man too, but as far as i know there was no lack of soldiers even 1945. Experienced and trained Soldiers for sure, but they had enough young people to throw at the front. And in coh2 Volks are a mix of inexperienced new soldiers and older ones. Anyway i think we should go away from this stigma (allies mass low qualitiy units, axis high quality low number units). We get nothing of value from this game design imo.

About volks: The mp40 upgrade is way more interesting than the stg one. Its not as brainless and gives the unit a clear design (mid-near range squad compared to ok on every range). And with it Volks are actually able to to beat upgraded Sections/Cons/Rifle if you use them perfectly. With Stg Volks there is no range to even contest them.


In gameplay terms: "Meatshield" is the most fitting role for Volks, I think. They already sort of act this way in the very early game (Relying on being able to trade relatively efficiently rather than outright outshooting their opposing numbers), and fit between Sturms in the early game, and Obers/JLI/Fallschirmjager in the lategame, who are there to act as the "Hammer" to their "Anvil".

Modifying them to more closely parallel the Conscript formula, rather than the rifleman-lite that they currently morph into would be the best way to rebalance Volks, in my opinion. Smoothing out their scaling in this way (Through the loss of STGs) also gives more room for their early-game and late-game performance to be tweaked, which would allow them to scale well while not being oppressive at any point in the game.

Increasing the number of men in the squad (while reducing reinforcement cost, and ideally lowering pop cost, as OKW are already heavily strapped for pop space) with an upgrade would be the ideal way to go about that. 6man squads aren't /just/ a SOV trait, anyway. Ostruppen exist, and USF inexplicably have 6man squads as well.
1 Apr 2021, 16:32 PM
#83
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356

The whole idea of the German army winning while being outnumbered is just post-war memoir cope anyways. When Germany was winning like in Barbarossa they had massive local advantages in manpower because skilled armies simply don't attack without a numbers advantage unless they're absolutely desperate.

Late war the numbers advantage flipped on the eastern front, but that has more to do failing logistics and economy preventing them from supplying troops than it does Russians vastly outnumbering them with human waves.
1 Apr 2021, 16:33 PM
#84
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

The whole idea of the German army winning while being outnumbered is just post-war memoir cope anyways. When Germany was winning like in Barbarossa they had massive local advantages in manpower because skilled armies simply don't attack without a numbers advantage unless they're absolutely desperate.

Late war the numbers advantage flipped on the eastern front, but that has more to do failing logistics and economy preventing them from supplying troops than it does Russians vastly outnumbering them with human waves.

So... yeah... about the game...
1 Apr 2021, 16:59 PM
#85
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2021, 01:34 AMSpoof

Because it fits Volks thematically and historically. The 6th man upgrade is pretty goofy for a late war faction that's supposed to be resource starved, including human resources (looking at OKW popcap), the best upgrades available to Volks that fit the game and are somewhat immersive are the StG and MP40 upgrades.



The Panzerfusillier Recon Package with G43s is silly in the same way. Why should it give a 6th man? I wish their power level was adjusted as a 5-man squad.
1 Apr 2021, 17:04 PM
#86
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660




The Panzerfusillier Recon Package with G43s is silly in the same way. Why should it give a 6th man? I wish their power level was adjusted as a 5-man squad.

This man speaks the truth
1 Apr 2021, 17:05 PM
#87
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449




The Panzerfusillier Recon Package with G43s is silly in the same way. Why should it give a 6th man? I wish their power level was adjusted as a 5-man squad.



This man speaks the truth

Based
1 Apr 2021, 19:59 PM
#88
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356


So... yeah... about the game...


Which game? CoH2? Or the game where you passive aggressively snipe at other posters under the pretense of balance?
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