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Will they address Panzergrens in the new patch?

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5 Jan 2021, 17:49 PM
#281
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 04:34 AMgbem



youre also ignoring the fact that the soviets NEED to build T2 for the AT gun if they go T1...

thats another 160/15 to the pricetag....


The part in question. You're claiming SOVs need T2 for AT. Why do SOVs need AT if OST doesn't have to build any buildings capable of armor? You absolutely need a field gun for the terrifying armored monstrosity that is the 250?
5 Jan 2021, 17:56 PM
#282
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



The part in question. You're claiming SOVs need T2 for AT. Why do SOVs need AT if OST doesn't have to build any buildings capable of armor? You absolutely need a field gun for the terrifying armored monstrosity that is the 250?


because the zis gun is integral to soviet lategame play...
1. barrage can disloge team weapons and control blobs...
2. as with all facs AT guns are required to repel medium armor... AT infantry will not suffice unless you are some 4v4 player... AT walls are very much meta is any gamemode for a good reason...


maybe you would actually be aware of these if you actually played the soviets...
5 Jan 2021, 18:03 PM
#283
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 17:56 PMgbem


because the zis gun is integral to soviet lategame play...
1. barrage can disloge team weapons and control blobs...
2. as with all facs AT guns are required to repel medium armor... AT infantry will not suffice unless you are some 4v4 player... AT walls are very much meta is any gamemode for a good reason...


Right. So ZiS is completely irrelevant to pgren timing, and you only mentioned it because you were pathetically grasping for anything to buttress your broken argument about costs.
5 Jan 2021, 18:08 PM
#284
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



Right. So ZiS is completely irrelevant to pgren timing, and you only mentioned it because you were pathetically grasping for anything to buttress your broken argument about costs.


it is relevant to your retarded point of building sniper/M3/T1 to counter pgrens...

maybe if youve never derailed the pgren discussion with your halfarsed "ideas" for a counter we could steer the discussion back to pgrens appropriately as opposed to discussing how retarded soviet teching is...

in any case as ive said before pgrens come much earlier than their intended counter (allied LVs) and the influence they exert as an earlygame NONDOCTRINAL elite seems quite insane...
5 Jan 2021, 18:20 PM
#285
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 18:08 PMgbem


it is relevant to your retarded point of building sniper/M3/T1 to counter pgrens...

maybe if youve never derailed the pgren discussion with your halfarsed "ideas" for a counter we could steer the discussion back to pgrens appropriately as opposed to discussing how retarded soviet teching is...

in any case as ive said before pgrens come much earlier than their intended counter (allied LVs) and the influence they exert as an earlygame NONDOCTRINAL elite seems quite insane...


It's completely irrelevant. Every post in this thread I have to guide us back to the topic at hand before you wander off into some "oh yeah well the brumbar counters combat engies, therefore Pgrens OP" derail.

You've already made a thread for soviet tech costs. Please go discuss them there, and admit that the past 4-5 pages of arguing have actually had very little to do with Pgrens other than being an outlet for you to vent your pathetic SOV-OST win rate.
5 Jan 2021, 18:40 PM
#287
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 18:27 PMgbem


read your own post retard




of course its fucking relevant... my whole point was to disprove this entire post and how fucking stupid it is to try to go T1 at all vs ostheer...

the whole point is the paragraph you have made above is nothing but nonsense... now stop being intellectually dishonest and admit your mistake



Absolutely none of what you've posted is relevant to that. If you really want to go t2 against pgrens make a sacrifice for a softer counter and build maxims. I'm not opening that can of worms though since you can't handle something as simple as discussing the cost of openings without resorting to "BUT SOVS NEED ZIS SO PLUS 1,000,000,000 MANPOWER COST. PGRENS OP!!!!111"
5 Jan 2021, 18:47 PM
#288
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979


If you really want to go t2 against pgrens make a sacrifice and build maxims.


now i know you dont play the soviets...
5 Jan 2021, 18:53 PM
#289
avatar of Elaindil

Posts: 97

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 18:47 PMgbem


now i know you dont play the soviets...


I mean he has shown this since his first posts in this topic. But instead of playing soviets he has been caps locking and being agressive all over the place. He has been been pointed to some arguments from people actually playing soviets but it doesn't help.



jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 16:43 PMVipper

KV-1 is simply not a bad tank as you claimed.



Yeah I agree here. KV-1 is one of the most cost efficient tanks with great timing Dharx. You actually can see it in high level play consistently. Though I don't know how we got to discussing KV1 in the topic about PGs.

5 Jan 2021, 18:57 PM
#290
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 14:52 PMgbem


neither rifles nor conscripts can beat grenadiers in long range combat...




a 4 man squad that can beat a 6 man squad at medium-long range... they exchange durability for DPS


Wrong again, UKF beats grens easily almost any range and even more when they are 5 man squad. Rifles & Conscripts aren't usually forced to stay on long range fight and they shouldn't either do that unless there is some flanking maneuver going on. Your points are moot. This started anyway with grens not needing cover which is still very wrong thing to say.
5 Jan 2021, 19:05 PM
#291
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 18:57 PMThamor


Wrong again, UKF beats grens easily almost any range and even more when they are 5 man squad.


yes and i did mention sections beating grens at long range now did i?

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 12:05 PMgbem

grens dont even need to put sandbags... unlike conscripts they dont need to close the distance vs the opponent... (unless its sections)


jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 18:57 PMThamor

Rifles & Conscripts aren't usually forced to stay on long range fight and they shouldn't either do that unless there is some flanking maneuver going on.


rifles yes because they have really really good close range DPS and can frontally change any axis mainline and still trade positively...

conscripts on the other hand can charge grens frontally for a 50/50 chance of winning and cannot charge vs volks at all...



or they can stay in sandbags that they built and either force grens/volks to find nearby green cover to shoot at conscripts with or to retreat

idk about you but id say the latter is a bit more ideal...

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 18:57 PMThamor

This started anyway with grens not needing cover which is still very wrong thing to say.


that wasnt the point... the point isnt "grens dont need cover"... the point is "grens dont need to be able to build cover"... the fact that they can force enemy infantry to come closer to them and fight outside of cover is already a massive advantage on its own...
5 Jan 2021, 19:29 PM
#296
avatar of Elaindil

Posts: 97



Why do you continue to cry about soviets in a thread about and OST unit? If pgrens were the source of imbalance you'd be talking about pgrens, yet you keep crying "but muh soviets".



Who do you think shoud be talking about PGs in a topic discussing their presumably too strong timing? Wehraboos? This whole thread has been built from the point of SOV-OST match up since SOV is the faction sturggling with PGs. You would get that if you bothered to look through the thread.

But what am I saying. You don't even read the thread. You are here to pick fights and to shit all over the place.
5 Jan 2021, 19:45 PM
#297
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jan 2021, 19:23 PMgbem

in any case as ive said before pgrens come much earlier than their intended counter (allied LVs) and the influence they exert as an earlygame NONDOCTRINAL elite seems quite insane...



Ahh yes Pgrens intended counter the AEC or Stuart.

This whole thread has been built from the point of SOV-OST match up since SOV is the faction sturggling with PGs


SOV is struggling ergo nerf OST?

Neither of you play any faction other than SOVs. If you did you'd realize that OST has 2 other match-ups that Pgrens are balanced around. Your short-sighted reasoning will make 2 problems for every problem you fix.

I'm done with your circular "but muh poor SOVs".
5 Jan 2021, 20:02 PM
#298
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



Ahh yes Pgrens intended counter the AEC or Stuart.


do you play the game? cuz T-70/aec/stuart/flaktruck all fare alot better vs pgrens than infantry does...
5 Jan 2021, 20:02 PM
#299
avatar of Elaindil

Posts: 97



SOV is struggling ergo nerf OST?

Neither of you play any faction other than SOVs. If you did you'd realize that OST has 2 other match-ups that Pgrens are balanced around. Your short-sighted reasoning will make 2 problems for every problem you fix.

I'm done with your circular "but muh poor SOVs".


You need to work on your reading skills friend. Never have I stated that OST needs nerfing. This whole thread is only about PGs and discussing whether their timing is too strong or not. The other 2 match ups have been discussed in this thread but once again you didn't bother reading and just derail every discussion in "dumb allies fuckboys wanting to nerf OST".

Oh and you can check my playcard to see how I only play SOV. I have it conventiently shown in my profile. Can we see yours?

5 Jan 2021, 22:18 PM
#300
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783



Ask yourself why you are comparing SOV pgren counters to OST openers that don't even include a single pgren in the cost.

The height of intellectual dishonesty.



"How does one get a sniper AND a clown car AND outnumber ost in squads by the time Pgrens hit the field?"

This was what I said, to which you replied that I erroneously included both the sniper and clown car, then listed a weird build.

I did not include pgrens because it was a question of timing not just raw cost. How much does ost need to expend in a typical build before getting your first pgren.

I did not mention map control in my post so I'm not sure why you would bring it up. I listed actual relevant builds. Why are you dismissing them?

I dunno, pretty ironic calling me dishonest.
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