Pioneer support package:
"Pioneers can be upgraded with Breakthrough Equipment (Pioneer support package ) for 30 munitions; gives access to Destroy Cover; same as Royal Engineers. Also increases repair speed by 0.3.
Pioneers can now also throw satchel charges. Same stats and cost as the Penal Battallion satchel charge.
Breakthrough Equipment (Pioneer support package ) does not lock out the flamethrower or the minesweeper upgrade."
Since minesweeper now provide extra repair speed:
"Pioneers
In order to give the Eastern Front factions repair times that are more in line with those of the Western Front armies, the minesweeper upgrade on Pioneer squads will now give additional repair speed.
Minesweeper upgrade now improves repair speed by 0.3 per model"
and total might be to high, I would suggest to remove the upgrade and provide the "satchel" and "destroy cover" without first requiring an upgrade.
breakthrough equipment
20 Oct 2020, 11:12 AM
#1
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
20 Oct 2020, 16:58 PM
#2
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
When I did cheat mod tests a while back it looked like 5 man pioneers repaired faster than breakthrough equipment just eyeballing it. This commander is mostly picked for the Ace/Ass Grens so I don't see any particular need to nerf an ability that's an afterthought in it when it's outperformed by another commander on top of that.
20 Oct 2020, 17:03 PM
#3
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
When I did cheat mod tests a while back it looked like 5 man pioneers repaired faster than breakthrough equipment just eyeballing it. This commander is mostly picked for the Ace/Ass Grens so I don't see any particular need to nerf an ability that's an afterthought in it when it's outperformed by another commander on top of that.
well the 5 men pioneer have extra manpower and pop...
And that is why I am suggesting change that will not simply nerf them but will also remove the MU cost for having access to the rest of abilities. One could even move it CP 0-1
20 Oct 2020, 23:48 PM
#4
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
well the 5 men pioneer have extra manpower and pop...
And that is why I am suggesting change that will not simply nerf them but will also remove the MU cost for having access to the rest of abilities. One could even move it CP 0-1
Overall it's a nerf I would say. The commander isn't really munition's heavy since there is no offmap if you don't count the HT flares that nobody uses so using munitions for the upgrade doesn't hinder the commander all that much. The repair speed is the main draw of the upgrade and you aren't going to need satchels very often at 0-1 CP or want to waste munitions on using them at that point of the match so that buff is pretty much useless in exchange for losing repair speed when I've never seen anybody complain about Pioneer repair speed with the upgrade.
21 Oct 2020, 09:07 AM
#5
Posts: 2243
never seen, in any cast (and i look everyday 1-3 casts) that a ost pio trow a satchel. the 4model squad is much harder to use behind enemy lines to be effective with that....and ost pio have a lot to do:
build tech buildings, repair stuff, sandbags, wires, mines, mine sweeping, ....
all this is exclusively on pios...
build tech buildings, repair stuff, sandbags, wires, mines, mine sweeping, ....
all this is exclusively on pios...
21 Oct 2020, 09:11 AM
#6
Posts: 17886 | Subs: 8
never seen, in any cast (and i look everyday 1-3 casts) that a ost pio trow a satchel. the 4model squad is much harder to use behind enemy lines to be effective with that....and ost pio have a lot to do:
build tech buildings, repair stuff, sandbags, wires, mines, mine sweeping, ....
all this is exclusively on pios...
So... they do same or less then any other engineer then?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 Oct 2020, 10:57 AM
#7
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Overall it's a nerf I would say. The commander isn't really munition's heavy since there is no offmap if you don't count the HT flares that nobody uses so using munitions for the upgrade doesn't hinder the commander all that much. The repair speed is the main draw of the upgrade and you aren't going to need satchels very often at 0-1 CP or want to waste munitions on using them at that point of the match so that buff is pretty much useless in exchange for losing repair speed when I've never seen anybody complain about Pioneer repair speed with the upgrade.
Imo risking a 200 manpower 30 or 30+30 or 30+60 MU to use satchel is to high of risk and I would rather see the upgrade cost removed.
Maybe one could change the name of the upgrade to "advance repairs" and have it provide the repair bonus and have the rest come without the upgrade.
21 Oct 2020, 11:13 AM
#8
Posts: 2243
So... they do same or less then any other engineer then?
my indent to post this was: these satchels are on the wrong squad. grens / panzergrens would be more usefully
21 Oct 2020, 18:56 PM
#9
Posts: 195
So... they do same or less then any other engineer then?
More actually, because Grenadiers cannot build their own sandbags. Though with their affordability getting a 2nd squad of them isn't out of the realm of feasibility.
Letting the first squad have a flamethrower and play a more offensive role with flanking may be a good way to use these satchels.
22 Oct 2020, 09:24 AM
#10
Posts: 124
my indent to post this was: these satchels are on the wrong squad. grens / panzergrens would be more usefully
Really ? You want satchels for grens/pgrens ? Do you want also throwing satchels to track of vehicle like at upgraded penals ? LOL. No way to give satchels to mainline/elite infantry.
22 Oct 2020, 09:44 AM
#11
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Really ? You want satchels for grens/pgrens ? Do you want also throwing satchels to track of vehicle like at upgraded penals ? LOL. No way to give satchels to mainline/elite infantry.
Not that agree with movign them to PG but they kind of already exist to tommies with heavy gammon bomb and with Penals...
22 Oct 2020, 09:53 AM
#12
Posts: 17886 | Subs: 8
Not that agree with movign them to PG but they kind of already exist to tommies with heavy gammon bomb and with Penals...
Super Heavy tank also exists stock for OKW, can we have stock IS-2 and pershing too?
How other things do things and what they have is completely irrelevant.
You look for internal faction balance and assign abilities based on the army, not based on what others have.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Oct 2020, 10:47 AM
#13
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Super Heavy tank also exists stock for OKW, can we have stock IS-2 and pershing too?
How other things do things and what they have is completely irrelevant.
You look for internal faction balance and assign abilities based on the army, not based on what others have.
PLS stop quoting if what you are going to say is completely irrelevant to what you are quoting. This time I will explain to you what I have posted because you seem had trouble with your reading comprehension.
1) "Not that agree with moving them to PG"
That part of the sentence mean that I do not agree with moving satchel to PG, so stop responding as if I have suggested that it should be moved to PG.
2)"but they kind of already exist to tommies with heavy gammon bomb and with Penals"
This part is direct response to what I have quoted Goldenpunch who wrote: "No way to give satchels to mainline/elite infantry."
I have simply point out that the argument hold no water at all because satchel already exist to "mainline/elite infantry"
Unfortunately I do not have the time to explain everything to you so pls next time read post until you fully understand them before responding, it my take up to 10 times or even more so be patient.
I know that arguing with me is your favorite past time but unfortunately explain reading comprehension to you is not mine, so pls next time you feel an urge for it resist it.
22 Oct 2020, 16:34 PM
#19
Posts: 682
With the heavy nerf these pios are critical to keeping your Ace on the field. It gets an absolute beating if you want to actually use it to it's best.
/s
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