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Leaderboards droppers FIX

Like this fix?
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36%
64%
Total votes: 11
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
30 Mar 2020, 05:46 AM
#1
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 154

Imagine this, you feel like its your lucky day and you do a 4v4 or 3v3 or 2v2 automatch pvp with randoms but, it goes horribly wrong when one of you team m8s gets bugspat/network syn error/ threw all his units and he drops just 10mins into the game. While the rest of your team are doing great, now you lose cuz of this bad team m8.

Simple fix for this kinda situations:
The person who drops within ~15mins into a game, gets a 'Defeat' in his leaderboards. While the rest of the players on his team gets nethier a victory nor defeat. But the opposing team (not the dropper's team) will get a 'Victory' however only get a bare minimum rank points in the leaderboards table.


This way the dropper's rank gets lower and the chances are he will be playing with players at his new low rank level. Everyone else dont have to deal with that dropper guy in their next few games. Hence, very little droppers.
30 Mar 2020, 05:53 AM
#2
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2546 | Subs: 1

Don't play 4v4 with randoms if you want to have a solid experience.
I've had 4v4 games where at the 12 minute mark, I still had an army but 2 of my teammates had a combined army count of 5 units. Yet they didn't want to surrender, eventhough it was obvious that we were going to lose. I'd rather not be held hostage by these types of players so I don't agree with your proposition.
30 Mar 2020, 05:55 AM
#3
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 154

Don't play 4v4 with randoms if you want to have a solid experience.
I've had 4v4 games where at the 12 minute mark, I still had an army but 2 of my teammates had a combined army count of 5 units. Yet they didn't want to surrender, eventhough it was obvious that we were going to lose. I'd rather not be held hostage by these types of players so I don't agree with your proposition.


I know thats the big problem in 4v4, but it also happens in 2v2 as well.
30 Mar 2020, 13:20 PM
#4
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1048 | Subs: 2

People leave because they know it is already a loss to them. Why waste time playing a losing battle. So giving them a loss does nothing.

Not punishing the other players leaves room for abuse. Where friends search at the same time but not as a team. Things go bad, one guy just quits.
30 Mar 2020, 16:22 PM
#5
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 884

If this was combined with a match-making cooldown, I'd agree. As Rosbone pointed out, this can be abused by some players, either to simply get a better match (it's not much of a penalty) or to intentionally down-rank.

If we copied games like CS:GO, and implemented a "cooldown", this would be nearly impossible.

Explicit warnings are shown to players who wish to abandon Competitive matches. Choosing to abandon an incomplete Competitive match will result in a Competitive cooldown for your account.

[...]

First cooldown (level 1) - lasts 30 minutes
Second cooldown (level 2) - lasts 2 hours
Third cooldown (level 3) - lasts 24 hours
Fourth cooldown (level 4) - lasts 1 week

A week of clean play will reduce an account's cooldown level by one. An account whose cooldown level has been reduced to level 2 through clean play would receive a level 3 (24 hour) cooldown on their next infraction.


CSGO Match-making info


That said, a cooldown could only be implemented if the MM became more "strict" in its skill ranges. Games where 'Top-100' players are matched with 4000+ players are unplayable.
30 Mar 2020, 19:06 PM
#6
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7085 | Subs: 1

If this was combined with a match-making cooldown, I'd agree. As Rosbone pointed out, this can be abused by some players, either to simply get a better match (it's not much of a penalty) or to intentionally down-rank.

If we copied games like CS:GO, and implemented a "cooldown", this would be nearly impossible.



CSGO Match-making info


That said, a cooldown could only be implemented if the MM became more "strict" in its skill ranges. Games where 'Top-100' players are matched with 4000+ players are unplayable.


Reminder that in CoH, ranked = quickplay.

I'm not as informed on CS, but i don't think there's such a penalty on non ranked games.
30 Mar 2020, 19:22 PM
#7
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 884

Reminder that in CoH, ranked = quickplay.

I'm not as informed on CS, but i don't think there's such a penalty on non ranked games.


Sort of?

While there isn't a penalty for leaving (or dropping) from a CS-casual match, those casual matches run on very different rule sets. If you want the "true CS experience" (5v5, no starting armor, etc.) you need to play ranked, which has those cooldowns.

While it's true that ranked and quickplay are the same in CoH2 (which is a mistake, imo), a match-making "cooldown" shouldn't prevent you from playing custom games.
30 Mar 2020, 19:40 PM
#8
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7085 | Subs: 1



Sort of?

While there isn't a penalty for leaving (or dropping) from a CS-casual match, those casual matches run on very different rule sets. If you want the "true CS experience" (5v5, no starting armor, etc.) you need to play ranked, which has those cooldowns.

While it's true that ranked and quickplay are the same in CoH2 (which is a mistake, imo), a match-making "cooldown" shouldn't prevent you from playing custom games.


My point is, some people treat automatch as ranked, others as quickplay.

You can't think of implementing same set rules on matchmaking as games which have way bigger player bases.
30 Mar 2020, 19:44 PM
#9
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1513

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 05:55 AMVIGNASH


I know thats the big problem in 4v4, but it also happens in 2v2 as well.


We have the current match-making system because it eventually opens up to allow a wider ranking. If you don't like it, just restart search every two minutes.

I've had games where my entire team has no AT at 15 minutes. We had great map control until the other side brought out tanks. I played a 4v4 last night where two of my teammates built no vehicles except Katys. They had fun until the other side dove in a P4 and got past the AT guns. Eventually, the other side stopped using "expensive" P4's and just dove in Pumas, which hunt Katys just fine. How long am I supposed to stay in those types of games? I don't start BM'ing, but at some point it's over and we're just wasting people's time.
30 Mar 2020, 19:52 PM
#10
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 884

My point is, some people treat automatch as ranked, others as quickplay.

You can't think of implementing same set rules on matchmaking as games which have way bigger player bases.


We have the current match-making system because it eventually opens up to allow a wider ranking. If you don't like it, just restart search every two minutes.

[...]but at some point it's over and we're just wasting people's time.


Rename "quick-play" to "ranked" and put a disclaimer in it, saying that it's not a casual mode (maybe even direct people to custom matches). Then restrict the skill-range in that mode to a reasonable number, to prevent incredibly one-sided matches.

This solves basically every problem in the current match-making system.

That said, I doubt this will actually happen, since it requires UI and MM code changes, which seem to be 'out of scope' these days. Hopefully "CoH3" (if that's ever a thing) will implement a proper competitive system similar to other games.
30 Mar 2020, 20:30 PM
#11
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7085 | Subs: 1





Rename "quick-play" to "ranked" and put a disclaimer in it, saying that it's not a casual mode (maybe even direct people to custom matches). Then restrict the skill-range in that mode to a reasonable number, to prevent incredibly one-sided matches.

This solves basically every problem in the current match-making system.

That said, I doubt this will actually happen, since it requires UI and MM code changes, which seem to be 'out of scope' these days. Hopefully "CoH3" (if that's ever a thing) will implement a proper competitive system similar to other games.


You are just alienating the playerbase. It's better for matchmaking to have more people searching. If you try to enforce too many strict rules, less people is gonna play.

Ranked is never the most popular mode. I'm playing HoTs (Blizz MOBA) which has probably dozens or hundreds of times the playerbase of CoH. And each time they try to implement this type of "solutions" to limit and be more strict, they end up screwing it more and more.

I'm not saying that no kind of rule could be implemented but nowhere near close to what other more popular games have.

If i were to set rules i would do this:

1- A loss is a loss. You don't like to lose due to quitters, get a partner.
2- Simplify rankings. AT partners who search outside of the number of people in the group counts towards random. Ex: 2 people searching in 3v3 counts towards random 3v3. Group of 3 in 4v4 as 4v4. This is both for ladder and matchmaking.
3- First quit/drop from a game in the first 20mins has no penalties. Further games in a 24hs puts you on a 1 hour cooldown for automatch outside of 1v1 and complete groups. If you have internet issues/bugsplat, you might as well not play till it's fixed on that hour.
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