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1000 IQ USF fix

8 Nov 2019, 02:04 AM
#1
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 689

Captain is the tier to go. We told the balance team the M20 rush was overnerfed, they went with it, now Captain is far superior. Lot of Stuart talk as intermediate AT for USF ahead of a Jackson nerf. Problem is 37mm guns don’t penetrate Panthers unless you use magic shells. Stuart is not AT, but what it could be is an excellent T70 clone, minus the OP crutchness. I know someone will say Stuart has an at gun mounted why HE shells, and I’ll ask why the T70’s 45mm AT gun that’s also in Urban D and Community Defense doesn’t fire HE.

Captain and LT need both AI and AT, the same principle that’s half assed in Soviet T1&T2 that produced the penal AT horror.

My suggestion: Take the Stuart, wreck it’s AT capability so if struggles to kill a 251. Give it a sight mode, let it cap with the crew inside the vehicle and make it an Anti-infantry specialist, then put it in the Captain tier where the AT gun can help out with AT. Take the AAHT, slightly lower its anti infantry DPS and increase the pen value, then put it in LT tier.

Disclaimer: The suggestion has 2 weaknesses:
1) MG and AAHT together around the 5min mark is only possible with airborne rn and is quite strong. This combo as stock, together with the M20 might make LT the god tier Anti-infantry tier. AAHT’s anti inf DPS might have to go down a lot.
2) AAHT has some AT currently, compensating for the AT gun’s lack of mobility and protecting from dives. This is less problematic than issue 1, especially with zooks, but is still a possible issue.
MMX
8 Nov 2019, 02:29 AM
#2
avatar of MMX

Posts: 38

so, in essence, you want to revert the usf tech revamp to its original state and make cpt tier even more superior to lt (better ai and at)? i honestly fail to see how that would make lt tech any more attractive.
8 Nov 2019, 02:32 AM
#3
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 689

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2019, 02:29 AMMMX
so, in essence, you want to revert the usf tech revamp to its original state and make cpt tier even more superior to lt (better ai and at)? i honestly fail to see how that would make lt tech any more attractive.


Make the Cpt even better? The main issue I see is that this might make the LT tier absolutely batshit OP. Good luck countering MGs and M20 with the mobile AAHT guarding them. This would have to be balanced very carefully.
MMX
8 Nov 2019, 04:17 AM
#4
avatar of MMX

Posts: 38

fair enough, but lt tier would still be very vulnerable to anything bigger than a 222, unless you want to buff the aaht's at capabilities through the roof, ofc. also, shuffling stuart and aaht around would leave cpt tier without a suppression platform once again, which was one of the reasons for the tech revamp in the first place. not saying your proposal isn't interesting in itself, but i think it would (re)create more problems than it solves.
ddd
8 Nov 2019, 07:16 AM
#5
avatar of ddd

Posts: 508 | Subs: 1

Thats the dumbest suggeation i read here. It doesnt fix anything and reverts changes that made usf tech bearable.
8 Nov 2019, 11:51 AM
#6
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2658

This suggestion suggests you don't understand why USF's tech was overhauled in the first place.

USF used to be .50 cal/M20/AAHT and ATG/Pack Howie/Stuart, and it sucked.

Lieutenant tier had two AI vehicles, meaning one was always redundant, and Captain tier had both all the AT and no suppression.

The overhaul made both tiers fairly well rounded: Lieutenant had a suppression unit (.50 cal), an bleed unit (M20) and an AT unit (Stuart), and Cpatain had a suppression unit (AAHT), a bleed unit (Pack Howie) and an AT unit (M1 ATG).

You're suggesting undoing all that.
8 Nov 2019, 17:28 PM
#7
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 473

Guys, look twice. Stormjäger suggested making the HT an AT unit an the Stuart an AI unit.
I just don't get what issue this should solve, since each tier basically has a similar unit setup than before. But now both suppression platforms are in the same tier?

I don't think this is a good suggestion. It solves practically nothing unless the now newly introduced combos turn out to be OP. Basically it either solves nothing, or is likely to create issues.
If Cpzt is OP, then nerf the OP unit. If Lt is UP, then buff the UP units. The role setup atm is very well done.
8 Nov 2019, 17:32 PM
#8
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 689

I don't think this is a good suggestion. It solves practically nothing unless the now newly introduced combos turn out to be OP. Basically it either solves nothing, or is likely to create issues.
If Cpzt is OP, then nerf the OP unit. If Lt is UP, then buff the UP units. The role setup atm is very well done.


I would have to agree, the more I’ve been thinking about this the worse it seems. I do however think there is some merit in focusing the stuart in an AI role since the 37mm gun will never be a good intermediate AT.

An alternative would be to make LT to Captain mandatory so you have to tech everything. That way you can fix the stuart without needing suppression, AT and AI in each tier.
8 Nov 2019, 18:04 PM
#9
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2658

If the KV-8 can outpenetrate the KV-1, the Stuart can have decent pen too.
8 Nov 2019, 21:32 PM
#10
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1467

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2019, 18:04 PMLago
If the KV-8 can outpenetrate the KV-1, the Stuart can have decent pen too.


Exactly, also reworking it's abilities is an option too. The engine crit ability is really hard to pull off without sacrificing the Stuart

It should be hard to do but perhaps it should be replaced with something easier to use that's also not as strong
8 Nov 2019, 22:09 PM
#11
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 689

You could have a Major tier upgrade for 150 muni that converts the Stuart’s main gun to a larger AT platform. Is there any way to represent that visually?
9 Nov 2019, 02:05 AM
#12
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 547

LOL and people gave me crap over the ideas I put forth.
12 Nov 2019, 02:48 AM
#13
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1040

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Nov 2019, 02:05 AMCODGUY
LOL and people gave me crap over the ideas I put forth.


Because almost EVERY idea u put forth is as pathetic as this one.

Stormjager simply missed out on why stuart and AAHT were swapped in the first place. This gave both tech options AT and suppression. The Stuart may be a bit lacking in AT so I suggest to make its shells a bit more like the AEC's but not exactly the same, just a bit more AT and less AI.
12 Nov 2019, 18:53 PM
#14
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 120

Engine crit right now is probably a massively underused ability since it practically requires the sacrifice of the Stuart.

We could give the Stuart Crit shot like the AEC instead of engine crit as an ability. This could make the Stuart more survivable and viable vs stuff like Pumas and P4s but doesn't increase its ability to solely kill those units because its main gun should still do 80 damage.
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