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russian armor

Commander Tiers

26 Nov 2015, 08:29 AM
#62
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Mechanized company deserves 3-4 stars for offense because of early wc51 push against okw is deadly and arttillery barrage allows you to destroy pak43 instantly.
26 Nov 2015, 08:39 AM
#63
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1383

Let me summarize this whole guide

"No call in tanks? Lol tier 4-5 fo sho"


Doctrines like NKVD are a lot more useful than you think, they're just pure support.

You seemed to have pull the star rankings out of your ass on everything though, because doctrines with perfectly valid support abilities get 1 star in support. (Seriously? Radio intercept, recon planes, propaganda arty, rapid conscription and IL-2 planes doesn't get any points in support, let alone defense and offense?)


The proper way to do this would be to weigh every available ability with points for offense, defense and support and then compile it for each doctrine.

Also the descriptions of each doctrine are terrible.
26 Nov 2015, 09:58 AM
#64
avatar of boomerlouie

Posts: 7

I feel that Soviet Reserve Army is underrated and that you are dismissing the power of the buffed PPSH along with an improved ML-20 Howitzer. Also, some commanders you praise for having certain abilities while not glossing over the same abilities on other commanders. Again, referring back to Soviet Reserve army and a commander that I believe was overrated, Shock Motor, you mentioned how conscript repair kits and the ML-20 are useful but totally glossed over that in the Soviet Reserve Army description saying "Yay Anti Tank Partisans! Too bad that's the only good part of this doctrine." It feels like Shock Motor gets praised for having 2 key components of its doctrine matching the Soviet Reserve Army doctrine and with the Reserve Army these two abilities are all of the sudden useless? Too many inconsistencies in judgement between some of the comparisons are ratings for me, but to each his own.
26 Nov 2015, 11:23 AM
#65
avatar of TAKTCOM

Posts: 275 | Subs: 1

Soviet Reserve Army description saying "Yay Anti Tank Partisans! Too bad that's the only good part of this doctrine."

Yep. I like everything in this doctrine except 'Rapid Conscription'. And of course, no call-in tanks always bad for USSR.
26 Nov 2015, 11:58 AM
#66
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3051 | Subs: 14

Let me summarize this whole guide

"No call in tanks? Lol tier 4-5 fo sho"


Doctrines like NKVD are a lot more useful than you think, they're just pure support.

You seemed to have pull the star rankings out of your ass on everything though, because doctrines with perfectly valid support abilities get 1 star in support. (Seriously? Radio intercept, recon planes, propaganda arty, rapid conscription and IL-2 planes doesn't get any points in support, let alone defense and offense?)


The proper way to do this would be to weigh every available ability with points for offense, defense and support and then compile it for each doctrine.

Also the descriptions of each doctrine are terrible.



1. Read what support is. I defined it, first paragraph. Radio intercept is sorta good at supporting your teammates. Sorta. Recon planes are good as well, not 5 stars trololol because recon planes!!

NKVD is the type of commander your teammates would slap you for using in anything from 2v2 to 4v4. you can say NKVD has the same pushing power as something like shock rifle, or the same late game defense ability as Mechanized support, or that it's just as useful in a 4v4 as lend lease supply drops for example, and I'll just continue laughing at how ridiculous you sound. At the end of the day, this is about showing which docs suck and don't suck. And NKVD is PRETTY bad.

You can claim you can win with your dick on the keyboard and your mouse in your hands with NKVD, but honestly until you beat someone OF NOTE with one of these t4- and 5s I won't take a thing you say seriously in bumping them up. Maybe if red wings came in here and told me what you're saying, I'd listen. But even then he'd probably still say NKVD is bad, and his opponents that allowed NKVD to perform well, are bad.
I'm simply not gonna sit here and BS people telling them that the likes of NKVD is actually good, no matter how much you try to educate or troll me on awful abilities. The first paragraph also says that "we encourage you to try them all to fit your style" if your style is losing because you picked a shit commander, then enjoy losing. I'm not here to stop you.


And 2, again if you read the first paragraph every available ability was weighed from everything with the faction itself in mind, to how the other abilities worked together with the other abilities in the same doctrine.

And yes, if a soviet doctrine has no callins it's most likely terribad.

And 3, thanks for the compliment, I love writing shit descriptions. Achter wrote the OKW ones so you might want to compliment him directly.

4 I'm not gonna argue with you anymore past this point even though I said I would. You're just delusional, and I usually hold my tongue about the crap you say on the forums such as "current OKW is fine!relic let all whiners ruin gaem!" but unfortunately you brought your terribly unique opinion, and rudeness here as well.
26 Nov 2015, 12:02 PM
#67
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1593

Kinda useless guide...

Only shows which are the meta commanders, nothing more.
26 Nov 2015, 12:06 PM
#68
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3051 | Subs: 14

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2015, 08:16 AMTAKTCOM
1)Armored Assault don't have Conscript repair kit.
2) "Ml20 howitzer brings a strong offense late game" sounds like trolling.
3) Anti Infantry have Reserv army icon.
4) "Strong defensive infantry...hit the dirt PPSH-Conscripts" sounds like trolling.
5) Combined Arms Army and Shock Army have same icon.
6) Tank Hunters don't have Mark Vehicle. No one word about salvage kit.
7) Tactical Support don't have Mortar Cover.
8) Elite Armour: ...Vehicle detection is a Decent ability that allows you to detect tanks... However: OKW has the IR Halftrack, so you can use that instead...
Wrong. Vehicle detection shows ALL MINIMAP, IR Halftrack shows only nearby himself.

1 meant to say self repair
2 not trolling, just trying to give a few points
3 I seem to have run into an issue with anti_infantry_commander.dll. It didn't run properly so I settled for reserve armies portrait because they both have mustAches.
4 trying to give points
5 same thing as 3, same thing with storm and German infantry.
6 fair enough, though I haven't seen a salvage kit or that doctrine in 12 years
7 artillery* cover. I Blame relic for naming everything similarly
8 I didn't write that but I think he was trying to say you can "settle" and get an ir halftrack instead of going all out and going elite armor for map awareness.

Thank you for not being a butthole in your review. I appreciate it
26 Nov 2015, 12:37 PM
#69
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 566

Kinda useless guide...

Only shows which are the meta commanders, nothing more.


Well, non meta commanders are useless or extremely challenging to use in a pvp game, especially when other players will meta hard, keep this in mind.

The guide just helps those with limited money decide what they should and shouldn't buy. This guide helped me decide to stay away from the starter pack, saving me some money :D
26 Nov 2015, 12:41 PM
#70
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3051 | Subs: 14

Kinda useless guide...

Only shows which are the meta commanders, nothing more.



Dat feel when you realize this is a beginner guide and beginners don't know what the word meta even means :guyokay:
26 Nov 2015, 13:52 PM
#71
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1593




Dat feel when you realize this is a beginner guide and beginners don't know what the word meta even means :guyokay:


Ah..sorry :guyokay:

If it's for begineers it should be advertised/linked to steam forums too.
26 Nov 2015, 14:12 PM
#72
avatar of Nabarxos

Posts: 392

Very good Basic description for commanders but i would argue that the current Royal Artillery and Engineer commanders are awful
26 Nov 2015, 14:13 PM
#73
avatar of Don'tKnow

Posts: 225 | Subs: 1

Cookiez are you really sure that conscript support is one of the weakest ?
Actually its one of the best,provides more cons foor attack,defense or suppport and it allows you to amass armor.
On top of that cons are still the most versatile unit in the game.
26 Nov 2015, 16:49 PM
#74
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3051 | Subs: 14

Cookiez are you really sure that conscript support is one of the weakest ?
Actually its one of the best,provides more cons foor attack,defense or suppport and it allows you to amass armor.
On top of that cons are still the most versatile unit in the game.



I could give it a bump to t4, maybe t3 if you give me a replay pack showing that off.

I know assbag did very good vs Jesulin on faymonville with conscript support a few days ago in AE tourney...but then again that's literally the only cast I can remember in 2 years of someone ever doing a good job with that doc. I think burts/cheese used it alot too. But otherwise..

I haven't even seen anyone use it Ingame myself since literally the first few weeks of coh2 release.

in your analysis you say "moar moar moar cons" helps with defense and offense, is that really worth rating it among shock rifle? Lend lease?

i also want to say, I don't think any commander in the game has literally useless abilities. Every commander has some use.... No matter how small... :foreveralone: but The point I'm trying to make, is that 'use' overshadowed by a better commander? I say in the case of conscript support, there a definitely better commanders that combine the best abilities in conscript support with a better doctrine overall.

And thank you for being polite.
26 Nov 2015, 17:16 PM
#75
avatar of TAKTCOM

Posts: 275 | Subs: 1


2 not trolling, just trying to give a few points

If I was a newbie, I would have thought that the Ml-20 is strong late-game unit. We both know that's not true.

4 trying to give points

"Hit in dirt" needs maximum distance from the enemy (cover inefficient near the enemy). PPSH needs minimum distance from the enemy (SMG inefficient far from enemy). These two abilities cancel each other

6 fair enough, though I haven't seen a salvage kit or that doctrine in 12 years

Time to take a look


I didn't write...

OK, just OKW detect vehicle second best way remove the fog of war from minimap after partyzans spy network.

Thank you for not being a butthole in your review. I appreciate it

In communicating, I try to take and distribute information. Of course, sometimes across Internet comes such nonsense, which you can not respond without sarcasm. But this is not the case.
I is not completely agree with guide. But is fairly objective so i don't see the point of dispute.
26 Nov 2015, 18:57 PM
#76
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1383




1. Read what support is. I defined it, first paragraph. Radio intercept is sorta good at supporting your teammates. Sorta. Recon planes are good as well, not 5 stars trololol because recon planes!!



The strength of NKVD is being able to force retreat or pin your opponent. Not only does it win fights, but it prevents your opponent from capping vp's willy nilly. Terror Tactics is the more well rounded doctrine I think, but I like the combination or radio intercept/recon, because information is power in this game.




I'm simply not gonna sit here and BS people telling them that the likes of NKVD is actually good, no matter how much you try to educate or troll me on awful abilities. The first paragraph also says that "we encourage you to try them all to fit your style" if your style is losing because you picked a shit commander, then enjoy losing. I'm not here to stop you.


This is such a closed minded stance to have when it comes to RTS. You should be looking on the good side of "underwhelming" abilities and trying to figure out how you could use them. You'd be surprised how often this leads to a strong new strategy.




And 2, again if you read the first paragraph every available ability was weighed from everything with the faction itself in mind, to how the other abilities worked together with the other abilities in the same doctrine.


I mean with actual numbers, not your ass. There's so much crossover in abilities between Ost/Sov commanders that I don't believe you. Some that have 3/5 of the same abilities as top tier commanders are bottom tier commanders. (Ex: Festung Armour Really? Nothing wrong with this doctrine.)




And 3, thanks for the compliment, I love writing shit descriptions. Achter wrote the OKW ones so you might want to compliment him directly.


Want me to break it down for you? They're shit descriptions because you got lazy with anything you considered crap. Want an example? See: Encirclement doctrine. "Scary stormtroopers.....and a very hard to execute Encirclement ability. Its hard to grade this commander fairly."

The fuck does this tell me about anything about this doctrine and why you placed it in tier 4? There's plenty of similar descriptions that seem to just say "Yo this doctrine is bad nothing to say here".











26 Nov 2015, 19:13 PM
#77
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3051 | Subs: 14




Dullajan my man You're welcome to write your own
12 Mar 2018, 12:03 PM
#78
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 538

this guide might need small changes.
12 Mar 2018, 13:43 PM
#79
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10622 | Subs: 9

this guide might need small changes.


if a Staff Strategist has time, they can amend by adding a post to this thread. If they want to make actual text changes, a Mark II Guide would be needed with new art, which will take longer.
11 Sep 2020, 21:11 PM
#80
avatar of swiffy

Posts: 122

As someone who hasn't played CoH2 since 2015, will this guide catch me up on the most popular commanders in the game?

I can tell that there are a few commanders not listed in the guide but I don't know if I should worry about it too much. There's so many it's a bit overwhelming!

Any suggestions for catching up?
12 Sep 2020, 08:45 AM
#81
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1574 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2020, 21:11 PMswiffy
As someone who hasn't played CoH2 since 2015, will this guide catch me up on the most popular commanders in the game?

I can tell that there are a few commanders not listed in the guide but I don't know if I should worry about it too much. There's so many it's a bit overwhelming!

Any suggestions for catching up?


No, this guide is very outdated, more than 50% is wrong.

Here's a quick sum-up of what you want:

Ostheer: A commander that provides an alternative to LMG Grenadiers like either Osttruppen commander, either Assault Grenadier commander, Infantry Doctrine or Jaeger Infantry Doctrine.

Soviets: Preferably a commander that provides early AT like Guards or the M-42, but at least provides strong anti-infantry like Shocks, Guards, Dshk's or the weapon crate drop from Airborne.

OKW: A commander that has either Panzerfusiliers for early snare, Jaeger Light Infantry for campy T1 play, Fallschirmjagers for harder snowballing or 221 if you're a good light vehicle player.

USF: Don't really need a commander as much, so you see more variety. Mechanized is good for applying lots of early pressure while still being strong late, Heavy Cavalry is for a more conservative safe style of play but with the best late game, Recon Support is for campy play with Pack Howitzers. Other good commanders are Urban Assault, the 1919 doctrines and - solely for the AT gun - Airborne.

Brits: Valentine doctrine is heavily favored amongst most players. Otherwise pick a commander that provides the utility you want or try Lend Lease for the Assault Sections.
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