tbh, Fam; idc about ur reply all that much.
0 ostheer 1v1s
0 ostheer 2v2s
no axis 2v2 AT's in the past century
no cred. nothing. Basically a 4v4 player telling me to l2p in a mode and situation youve actually never played. unbelievable. If anything, you're baiting me right now and ofc im taking it like the asshat i am. |
The sh*t OP says about panther.... you know it has 3 MGs right? Infantry cannot use cover against it because I'll just crush the cover with my tank and then let it chew down models with my 3 mgs.
maybe you can do this in 4v4 obviously but in 1v1 and to an extent 2v2 which im talking about in this thread, thats a horrible idea and usually wont work once the infantry starts to vet up and ignores your panther MG's, while the early and mid game advantages combined with t4 tech costs, almost guarantees you will have 1 panther vs minimum double ATG, vetted allied infantry, and naturally a tank swarm, if you even still have VP's left at that point for it to even matter.
good luck killing a relevant amount of infantry with *pintle MGs LMAO with all that going on. |
Tiger I and IS-2 are the bars by which all other heavy tanks are measured. They've been in the game since the beginning and they are fine, susceptible to slight buffs or debuffs from time to time, but they are the quintessential heavies. You seem to think all should heavies should be these invincible, "one unit army" type things whereby you can leave it alone, unsupported, and suffer no consequences. That's just not how this game works. Every unit needs support and you can't expect a lone, isolated unit to live forever.
While you're on that topic, is it just me or does IS2 absoulutely poop on the tiger?
If the tiger was slow but had churchill like armor, then it would be be worth shit. right now its not bad but its definitely not allied level of strength unless its the Ace, which is the only tiger I see that actually does anything most times. which is sad.
Oh and as far as heavy tanks being able to take a beating... Pershing? Lol.
pershing is a medium for all intents and purposes, its more comparable to the comet and panther.
And the Panther is garbage?? What world do you live in where a tank with the absolute best armor in the game, high speed and mobility, and a great anti-tank cannon is considered "garbage?" About 3/4 of Allied armor has no chance of penetrating the frontal armor of a Panther, and even the tank destroyers and heavies will bounce frontal armor shots half the time as well. And btw, you can make the Panthers work against infantry when you do the same w/ the Jackson, SU-85, and Firefly.
High speed is the quickest way to death usually, what are you gonna use the speed for? running over mines faster while you over extend with your expensive ass panther? or for reversing away like the bitch that the panther is.
3/4 allied armor cant penetrate, well based off what i see, the following are a match for if not better than the panther
-Su76
-Su85
-T3485
-IS2
-Cromwell at closer ranges
-Firefly
-Comet
-Jackson
-Pershing
*churchill on closer maps
Back in the days when the panther was actually worth a shit, it was fighting against the shitty joke SU76 the lovely fun to use SU85, and the IS2, maybe some callin meta t34s with mark vehicle. Times have changed. the list of units that can challenge it have doubled. Not to mention allied infantry AT or mines that ALL 3 allied factions now have.
Tigers and Panthers "going down too fast." Ostheer has some problems, but this isn't it.
yes it is |
IF there was a p3 there wouldn't be a single reason to get flame HT or 222.
Plus p3 cost will be around 60 fuel + cost of tier2 and tech up so you still wouldn't have a real early counter to light vehicules.
this is all theorycrafting and prayer but still,
#1 you could get 222 for M3 and M20 and UC, so vs LT tier and T1 you'd be good.
#2 Vs early emplacement, MG spam, or fighting pit spam you could still get a Flame halftrack.
#3 vs captain tier,AEC tech, t70's you have the P3 to match. and then so on and so forth.
Right now you cant even use the first two because of the units from #3.
also as I read through this thread, in reply to pak walls and MGs being unbeatable, I dont think MG spam pak wall into p3 into T3 would be OP at all, no more OP than brits AEC 6 pdr vicker wall into cromwell.
The only reason brits get away with this so well is because ostheer can do shit in comparison/return. Ill admit im not the best okw player as im simply not a fan of the faction at all but from what ive seen, OKW holds on pretty well vs brits and has alot of early and obviously late game tools. |

Upgrade for 251, like Katikof said, with 3,7cm or with 7,5cm. 
Why have that so it could be as wierd as the OKW flak half track? P3 better and kooler mang.
And holy shit the amount of replies.
@all of you saying light vehicles is what allows allies to break through, you might have a point, except USF late game is pretty much on par with Ostheer and then some with assuming Pershing or calliope commander. And early mid is still in USF favor because the Stuart would still be the best light vehicle, the p3 could again just prevent an allied player from just trolololol the entire map with one vehicle for the first 10 minutes... if you can't see that as a problem please literally play 2 games as Ostheer vs a top 100 USF UKF opponent. Please open your eyes..
@ those telling me to use incendiary rounds and what not, please stop. You made me laugh so hard this morning I farted. Again the people I play aren't braindead and don't drive their Stuart's in ass first or forget to pop smoke on their AEC.
ostheer dominated in 1v1 tournament? that must be some sort of joke. I work Sunday's so I usually miss the majority of the ESL casts.
I see 0 ways for Ostheer to beat quality AEC or m20+Stuart+ quad cheese. I do infact remember seeing a few replays of multiple AEC strats owning some poor Ostheer player, however, including the same thing happening to me. I constantly see allied pride posts over Ostheer players.
never any Ostheer win in the replay section. Everytime I check in a stream, Ostheer is getting murdered or barely hanging on.
seriously, who knows how to play Ostheer at a high level right now? Whoever and where ever you are can you please come out and shed some light. |
Nice Bait.
This actually bothers me alot so I posted about it and how RELIC can fix it. Yes It's really really ranty and kinda funny now that I reread it but I seriously want changes for ostheer.
i wouldnt waste my time typing up this much bait, I have better things to do with my life including homework due at midnight that I havent started on. Ive made my share of troll "xx faction needs this" threads in the past but this isnt one of those threads. It was a legit rant, I didnt really bother formatting the text or spellchecking, or anything. I just angrily typed my thoughts.
Relic wants light vehicle spam to be a thing, but doesnt give ostheer jack diddly shit. They give ostheer a slow ass pak, glass infantry and support weapons and a 222 vs a 75mm armored mini cromwell? LOL? I mean come on. Like I said im a fanboy, and im dayum proud of it. but I know bullshit when I smell it. |
1. size size size
2. if medbase is securely in range of mortar pits, either OKW dude got greedy and fucked himself or he is a noob getting his face pummeled in where mortar pit or no mortar pit, he is done for.
out of things you listed, only 120mm have some weight to them. but again, the medbase would not be reachable if the okw guy does not go for one minute shave.
1. poop poop poop. that map is the anti usf.
2, if thats the case its not really that impactful imo. If its out of range of enemy artillery its not that game breaking as a retreat point. Maybe if you showed me some minimap screenshots of battlegroup placement in 3s and 4s thats "forward retreat" but also out of range of arty i'd understand what you mean. But to me that sounds impossible unless the map is super massive, like general poop, But thats my opinion.
In 1v1 2v2 you simply cant have a safe retreat point thats also really close to the lines. Its punishable. In 4v4 on general mud, you might be able to put a battlegroup outside of calliope range somehow. So maybe im just missing something.
3? I DISAGREE. USF mortar halftrack pack howie combo was stronk as fuck vs LEIGs and battlegroup before calliope and still is
anyway
I think the best solution would be to have a different attribute pack with different stats and limiations in 3v3 4v4, like removing retreat points and lowering resources from caches and territory points, while increasing tech costs, but that wont happen. Feelsbadman |
This is where I disagree with you, and it all comes down to expecting the panzer iv to be on par with Cromwells and Comets.
the p4 is a joke vs cromwells. From brit perspective and ostheer perspective. you can literally win with a 50% health cromwell vs a P4 80% of the time simply because of the sight bonus. it also helps your 6pdr wall have vision. Which is literally fine, but give ostheer something to match
Vs comets, I just find the P4 vs comet matchup DISGUSTING. its like punching a baby in the face with brass knuckles when using a comet vs a p4.
a Sherman or cromwell can take on a panther if you flank, but good luck taking on a comet properly with anything short of a KT or elefant. Its not OP, the panther just sucks. It should match the comet. There is literally no good reason why the panther shouldnt kill a model or two on each hit. Im not asking it to squad wipe but damn its worthless vs infantry..especially all allied infantry that can either snare it or outspam it in the case of the brits and their cromwells. The stug will lose to a 6 pdr wall, pathing, or those Sleeper-OP piat blobs. One or the other.
While the panzer IV in real life was a solid tank for fighting other medium armor, it's spot currently in the game is a MOBILE UTILITY TANK. It probably has the best combination of armor, AI, AT, and mobility for it's price tag, while also having veterancy that carries it into the late game.
No all of those perks and description would go to the cromwell without question.
If you need to fight off medium armor, Stugs, pak40s, and panthers are all there. Pzr 4s are just fine the way they are.
I guess i need to l2p, except I wont afford a stug or a panther because I still have to fight the infantry and light vehicles that are still getting stronger and stronger, lowering my VP's like its nothing... Violently raping my anus basically.
the pak40 then becomes extremely tough to use.
Do you not understand what role the panther plays in this game? It is a Head-to-Head tank. It's job is to slug it out with enemy armor and have a reasonable chance of winning, while also keeping the mobility of earlier pzrs to take advantage of breakthroughs. It's not supposed to be good against infantry, Ostheer has THREE other tanks for this!
Fighting head to head with a panther is the fastest way for it to die especialyl since it takes eons to arrive. The main thing the panther is good at is fighting mediums on the flanks where AT guns cant follow to support said mediums..But its rate of fire and accuracy is so dreadful, and so is its cost. You can damn near have 3 cromwells/shermans/jacksons to one ostheer/okw panther.
If the average Ostheer did anything other than spam panthers, they would realize this.
Thats a myth. panther spam is dead.
You do realize that most Ostheer players say that the panzerwerfer is shit, right?
You realize the werfer is one of the most op things in the game right now? >_> ?
Furthermore, how exactly can you judge a faction that you can't even play right now? I play Ostheer quite a bit, and while the going does get tough it's still very much viable.
What I mean by "i cant play it" is I lose repeatedly or struggle like crazy.
Based off what I watch, the 2v2-4v4 ive been playing and a few 1v1s, Its not a l2p issue. everyone struggles as axis.
Sure, I can beat some rank 300 USF/UKF player no problem. THe problem is when I play people at my level, or even above my level. I have no chance. Theyre gonna get a light vehicle and pown my sauce. Period.
Im just fucked unless they throw said vehicle or dont go for vehicles or something, and from what ive seen you dont even have to perform well with your light vehicle, the simple THREAT of it is enough for you to overinvest into killing the little shit as ostheer and be screwed royally vs the infantry. its lose lose. There simply needs to be a vehicle to go toe to toe with allied vehicles so this "light vehicle phase" that relic wants can actually be fun for everyone, not just allies and OKW.
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I would like to start by saying yes, i am a known usf fanboy. No, this thread isnt troll.
Ostheer and brits are my favorite factions after usf, i love these two because of theyre AMAZING combined arms design, their abilities and units, etc.
But thats not the point. I would like to bring up the question as to why ostheer cant be more like brits.
Not with more emplacements, dont get it twisted.
but with other things.
Ostheer and brits play very similarly, obviously not including emplacements, but there are key aspects missing in ostheers favor:
- Light vehicles
The brits have the AEC, why can't ostheer have a panzer 3 that can self spot for all these suppport weapons and give recon or something? Why cant the 222's 20mm cannon at least scare an AEC or stuart away? Why does the 222 lose to a 3 man half health rifle squad with one AT nade? Does a luchs lose to one conscript? Does a stuart lose to one grenadier? Does the AEC lose to one volksgrenadier? Why is 222 getting rekt like this? 
Is the Panzer III model is bugged or something and thats why It hasnt been released? Can the puma come at 3CP? DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR VEHICLES, i think I heard ostheer's heart rate slowing as i type this.
good lord, ostheer fails like boiled shit when light vehicles roll out and alot of it is because theyure just missing a counter play vehicle. Grens are fine, mg42 is fine, sniper is fine, mortar is fine, the paks great, the 250 is awesome, and the 222 gives great sight and utility.
but holy shit, I cant use any of this when I have to worry about that ugly ass AEC/m20/stuart coming in and ruining it all in one go. This wasnt a problem when the stuart had 320 hp, or when the aEC was a piece of shiet. Do something about it. I can hear ostheers breath getting softer and softer. Listen to me relic.
and Inb4 some nerd comes in here and tells me to plant a teller. Guess what, nerd, if I plant a teller and hes not an idjit, and he's top 50 and buys sweepers, then what? What if I finish the teller and an AEC comes flying out of nowhere and shoots my pioneers on top of the teller a second after I place it? Stfu. Mines dont counter shit.
- Unit and commander abilities
The cromwell seems really strong vs ostheer armor, everything. I think because of the commander upgrade ability which allows you to literally attack move any target and get the first shot in because of the extended sight. If the Germans were known for their amazing tank commanders and coordination, why dont they have a tank commander upgrade that does a similar thing too? This would be a huge buff to the P4 vs sherman/cromwell matchup. The sherman has the penetration advantage and the cromwell has the first AND more accurate shot(s). So let the P4 have something. Right now its a piece of shit and a joke. And its really funny when it fights against comets and stuff, its like a T34-76 fighting an Abrams tank.
the panther, why the fuck does the comet raep infantry the way it does, from 50 range and with phosphorus (AND THE COMMANDER UPGRADE ?) Meanwhile, the panther is basically ignored by infantry? give it some anti infantry ability please, this isnt 2013 anymore. The allies have stuff to kill panthers now.
The panther is literally not shit now and its sad. It was funny at brit release but now its just said. Buff the panther.
The tiger, reduce its range back to 40. that was a dumb idea. Just make it slow, give it actual armor, take blitzkrieg away and replace with KT spearhead abilty.(btw still not an OKW thread but fix that fucking ability on the KT its still worse than the main attack for some reason)
My other gripe and final gripe, Brits get artilery cover+forward HQ anti infantry strafe+a recon ability(try it if you have the munitions), ok fine, why is sector artillery or stuka loiterSO SHIT in comparison? (this thread still isnt about OKW, but buff zeroing artillery too)
I love these stalemate back-breaker abilities, they create awesome visuals and moments late game and, well break stalemates...but lets make them all equal, or nerf them all. whatever, but do something about it.
Right now, ostheer is truly on life support(the panzerwerfer) and I think theyre about to die. So can we please do something and help ostheer out. I cant play them, and no one else will play them. And its a shame because I like them alot, theyre design is great, and so is there concept overall. Fix the power creep and buff them to be like brits please.
endrant and thx
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lets take General Mud, the best and most competitive map,
offtopic but general mud is among the worst maps in the history of all video games. absoulutely hate that map with a fiery, burning, insane passion. General Diarrhea is a better name for it.
ON topic,
retreat points are punishable, and harshly, by every single faction. The USF, Ostheer, and british retreat points are made of reinforced wooden glass, and can all die from small arms or one bazooka.
and the soviets seem way to spammy to need a FRP, but then again I dont liek soviets at all(id rather them be deleted and replaced with another axis faction) so im biased.
OKW's Battlegroup is a fortress at times until serious artillery comes out, but that could be seen as a feature of oKw, being able to just turtle around a battlegroup and push from it.
however Even then every allied faction can counterplay and punish an early battlegroup whether its mortar pits, 120 mm mortars, or packhowie+mortar halftracks..etc
Furthermore, late game, or even late mid game if we're talking 3v3 4v4, When OpieOP artillery comes, having a frp creates massive safety issues for the wounded soldiers that retreat there, all you need is a recon ability and its a massive hazard and risk to continue "short" retreating.
Unless you disagree with the punishable argument, i dont see a real reason to remove them |