Thank you all.
I usually go Gren, MG, Gren, Gren/Sniper and I just feel that the slightest mistake can force a mass retreat which I find very hard to recover from.
I haven't bothered with Assault Grens yet (I prefer finding a build whose very early game is independent of commander choice if possible), but I'll try that too.
But if that build is good enough and people are having success with it, I guess I'll work on my micro and tactical play.
Thanks again. |
I feel that currently Ostheer are at a very big disadvantage vs USF (my experience comes mostly from 2v2s). The first engagement looks something like 2-3 riflemen and a rear echelon troop versus 2 grens, an MG and pioneers, or equivalent, which is for me near impossible to overcome. The price difference between riflemen and grenadiers is not really felt in the early game.
Sniper helps immensely, but the loss of map control that getting one costs generally makes me lose once a decently microed AA halftrack comes out.
What are your impressions? Do you think it's a balance issue, and if not, could you offer some advice? |
The P4 J is there...
True, mistook it for the Ost P4 (which would have no place among OKW)
Apologies. |
And the P4 Ausf J, but that's probably because it would take a while to get both commanders.
Great picture anyways!  |
There wont be any campaign.
On Topic:
Yes mixed allied factions is a horrible in my opinion. Ostheer and the OKW fighting together can make sense but will probably OP if US/Sov teams are not possible so mixed german factions will have to be taken out as well.
Relic stated a lot of times that they are trying to create a somewhat authentic (not necessarily realistic) experience. "Immersion" has always been part of Relics idea for the game (at least I did read that in an interview a while ago as far as I remember). This will utterly destroy that immersion.
The solution is simple but will split the playerbase (and will have an impact on the leaderboards): Let players choose if they want to be matched up against mixed teams or not.
For me there are things that im okay with concerning authenticity:
- Rare vehicles roaming the battlefield (Ostwinds)
- US forces fighting on soviet maps/soviet forces fighting on western front maps (though some kind of mechanic that replaces t34 wrecks with sherman wrecks and vice versa depending on which factions are involved would certainly be great)
-Ostheer fighting Americans/Soviets fighting the OKW
-Ostheer/OKW fighting Americans OR soviets (though probably too unbalanced to allow for automatch)
-Obviously the unrealistic gameplay mechanics
But having IS2 tanks fighting alongside US Airborne rangers? That is too much imo. I dont need a perfectly authentic game but something that I feel has still something to do with the actual WW2.
This, precisely. I would still play it, but I'd have preferred more Eastern front armies. |
You've forgotten the counter barrage ability for Ostheer mortars. Never saw it used and never used it myself.
I just played around with it in Janne252's cheatmod. It may actually be the worst of the lot
Essentially, what it gives your mortar is slightly increased range (equal to the 120mm's). You can turn it on and off at will, and as long as the mortar doesn't start counter-firing it doesn't affect the main barrage countdown. Also, you can actually attack ground while it's in counter barrage mode.
The problem is, if the ability actually does fire (which you are supposed to want to happen), that is, and enemy mortar opens fire in range, it launches a barrage at it that, as far as I can tell, is just a regular barrage (maybe some damage bonus - not sure). And then it slaps a countdown on the barrage and smoke that is actually quite bigger (!) than the normal one. Also, at Vet3 the regular barrage range catches up to the counter-barrage one (since it doesn't increase with veterancy).
It... sucks. Bad. Its name is quite ironic considering that the Soviet precision strike is infinitely better in mortar-vs-mortar combat. IMO it really should be reworked or replaced. |
These are some abilities (both vet.1 and commander) I feel are underused and/or underperforming in the current balance environment, and the reasons why. I'm not saying that all of them should be buffed, and I've tried to abstain from offering concrete changes to them (since we've seen many times how a seemingly small change to an ability turns the meta upside-down, and frankly most of the time I don't feel competent enough to predict such a change's overall impact).
That being said, I find myself using these very rarely, if at all, and I haven't really seen them used much in the pros' casts, or tournaments. While most of the balance discussions naturally revolve around the most popular flavor-of-the-month units/abilities, I feel it's a shame that a part of the game remains more or less untouched in high level play, since that detracts from the depth of gameplay and the number of available strategies. Hopefully future patches or meta changes will make these (and others I've doubtlessly missed) more viable.
All of this is from a 1v1 perspective. In bigger games, obviously, anything goes.
Ostheer
- German Tank Traps
These are... bad. The default distance between the traps makes all Soviet vehicles aside from the heavies (IS2, ISU152, KV1/2/8) pass through them freely. Granted, the pathing makes sure that it takes them an extra second or two, but that's hardly worth the time it takes to build the traps. It is possible to place them close enough manually, but it's a micro exercise rarely worth the time considering they die to a couple of shots from pretty much anything, aside from small arms.
- Trenches
While there isn't anything wrong with trenches themselves (I think their cover bonus is more than green cover?), they just seem unnecessary to the Ostheer. The wide availability of molotovs and the loss of mobility (plus the chance to lose the trench to the enemy) greatly limit the situations where you think building a trench somewhere is the best use for your pio/gren's time.
- Hull Down
Decent bonuses on paper, but in practice the immobilization is too harsh a penalty. With german tanks as expensive as they are, you'd really rather they're doing something at all times. Plus, SU85's range.
- Paks' Target Weak Point
Target Weak Point in itself is a great ability on StuGs and the Brummbar. The issue with the Pak (40 & 43) version is that it seems to be bugged, as the gun misfires if the target is moving.
- Ambush Camouflage
Again, decent on paper (aside maybe from the cost), it's just hard as hell to make use of it, especially on MG42s, since someone is always out of cover, ruining the camouflage.
- Smoke Drop
I wasn't sure if I should include it. It's good and has many uses. It would just be much better if you could choose the direction of the plane, since the smoke is quite linear. Also, the delay between the call-in and the smoke falling makes it rather hard to use defensively (to cover a retreat). That may be intended, though.
- Infantry Awareness
This is the 222's and 251's vet1 ability. 10 munitions for 20 secs of infantry detection (on the mini and tac maps). In addition to requiring vet1 on some rather squishy units, the duration seems too short for it to be a reliable help in preventing flanks. Also, the scout car at vet2 (if it gets there) has line of sight equal to the ability's range, making it of any use only to see behind LoS blockers.
- Sniper Incendiary Shot
Seems bugged. It does do more damage, potentially killing several entities, but the only trace of the advertised stun is the icons that flash above the target.
- StuG III E
Paper armor and a blind gunner shooting basketballs. No price is low enough.
Soviet
- Soviet Tank Traps
In contrast to their German counterparts, soviet engineers have actually taken the time to measure the average tank's hull width. Ostheer tanks (and all other vehicles, for that matter) cannot freely pass between these tank traps, so they could be used in theory to block an early flame halftrack for example. They are still made of glass, though, and very map-dependant. Not to mention only available to the very "popular" as of late defensive commander.
- Armored Vehicle Detection
Too expensive, short-timed and/or short-ranged to be worth it.
- Trip Wire Flares
They don't always kill, and the small trigger area of the mine makes it likely that the enemy squads will just pass around it, making it unreliable in keeping a flank safe. Plus, you're likely using your conscripts and elite infantry for things other than mine-laying.
- B4 203mm Howitzer
It just seems too expensive for 1v1. The Ostheer have enough off-map artillery that placing a 600mp static unit is often a bit too much of a risk, considering how hard it is to use it versus a mobile enemy.
- For Mother Russia!
I honestly don't have enough experience with this ability to say it's UP. It just seems very rarely used, likely because the only commander that has it isn't particularly popular.
- Sniper Flare
It's maybe too expensive for what it does. Recon run replaces it when available. It also gives away your sniper's general location if seen.
I'd be glad to be proven wrong about any of these. Please post any suggestions you have for their proper use, or situations they could help in.
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Just a few points to hopefully clarify the intents behind some of the changes.
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Thanks for the update, looking forward to what you have planned  |
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Why do many people seem to assume that the next patch will take as long as this one? Pretty much all patches last year took about 20 days, and from what I understand this latest one has been delayed only because of the Battle Servers, which are a fundamental change. I expect they'll start pumping them at the previous rate afterwards.
Have some faith. |