[...] I'd say different abilities would at least make it so you're not so much playing like Ostheer, though I can't say I have any ideas at the moment.
I guess that s your main point of critique. OKW becomes too similar to Ostheer by getting a PIV as a stock unit. Regarding the essential difference between those two factions (teching, income pen, unit comp, etc.) and the PIV being a signature tank for the wehrmacht in general, I'd still disaggree but I understand your point.
If commander choice should have a bigger impact on the game or not, is a difficult discussion. I can see arguments for both sides. Since access to commanders is somehow money-dependent, it can easily drift off into a pay-to-win scenario, I'd hate to see. If coh2 had coh1 doctrine structure, I'd possibly aggree with your view.
In terms of gameplay, introducing the PIV as a OKW stock unit is simply just an improvement. Since it gives more options to deal with a clear factional disadvantage without breaking balance or fundamentally changing the meta.
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The Captain needs an urgent fix. The constant jumping, searching for cover, jumping, running into a tank, jumping outside of bazooka range before actually firing a single bazooka shot is really really annoying. It didn't happen to me once that i flanked a scout car or a PIV or flak HT and i lost the whole squad because the Captain wasn't able to shot a single shot in like an eternity. I also love when they suicide jump into a PIV before firing a shot.
Solution: Just make them shot the bazooka like the Volks do. The volks just stop and shot instantly.
I so want to go captain first tech, i love the pack and the stuart now, but i always think what should i do with the captain?
yeah, I also feel like the captain is the biggest goddam noob on the battlefield everytime I order him to attack armor. How often I found myself staring at the screen in despair screaming "shoot ffs just shoot!!!" |
Oh I'm far from surprised Relic's done this. They did it back in CoH1 and aren't stopping now just because a few historical purists complained on their forums.  It's just a 'I wish they had done this unit instead' comment, not an 'OMG PRE-ORDER CANCELLED RELIC/SEGA IS AWFUL' thing 
OKW actually wasn't that bad, all things considered. They were a grab bag of things that Ostheer didn't have, same as the Panzer Elite were in CoH1. There was only one stand out oddity where they picked entirely the wrong model/version for a vehicle, the rest was fine.
Anyways, 99% of what I'm seeing looks great - both as a player and as a modder.
Ha, I like your thinking! Feel pretty much the same.
But one have to apreciate relic stepping up their game from coh1 to coh2 in terms of hitorical accuracy. Particularly with uniforms. While wehr grens were dressed in a white jacket with black helmets back then, now we got zeltbahn and peadot camo.
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And I was udner the impression that this was more or less the point of playing as OKW. I've managed to win games (standard or custom) pretty well without having to resort to Elite Armoured and saving for 210 fuel for medium tanks.
This is your definition of the OKW faction, not the "official design".
Which BTW leads me to my next point: if OKW needed a alternative bridge for the gap, then an easier change would probably have been making the Elite Armoured 2x P4J call-ins modified to lower CP, reduced to one per tank, and adjusting cost as appropriate. [...]
Improving gameplay (i.e. bridging the mid/late game gap for OKW) should never be achieved by commander choice. The OKW PIV as introduced right now is no meta-breaking Ubertank, its just an additional option to compensate for the lack of a fundamental asset every other faction has (medium armor, late game AI armor). I dont understand your argument against it.
Wrong, it's a very negative interpretation to those that happen to like, agree with and benefit from the changes.
Which are all players? And relic? Who does not benefit from this change? Even allies-only super fanboys wont constantly lose their games to PIV spam now. You make a statement which implies that relic is not interested in their actual product from a gameplay perspective when introducing those changes. Though these changes seem very reasonable particularly if you have followed the discussion about the lack of OKW medium armor and resulting problems throughout the past year. |
I never really saw the need for a "generalist" tank for OKW, if you're really hurting for fuel, risk the Puma or just live with Volksblob until you can get Panther/ KT. That it's "generalist" pretty much means it'd be either too expensive and people will just defer to almost every other OKW vehicle, or it's too effective and replaces all of those vehicles.
IMO OKW was never really "generalist" by design, and either way the closest you had to an all-round good unit was Volks or Panther, and the Panther was at least expensive whereas Volks you need to constantly spend manpower which may drain teching or vehicles.
In fact I'd go as far as to say the bigger reason for such changes is more to artificially breathe new life into the game more so than ironing out issues. Switch a unit from DLC to core and suddenly it's like they made a new game!
I have to disagree with this.
OKW having no medium armor always gave the tech game an erratic feeling since your first armor was mostly a panther or a KT. A giant leap from Puma, Volks and Kübel.
PIV not only gives a strong alternative to bridge the gap between mid and late game, but also allows to further compensate the lack of a dedicated AI tank (Ostwind, Sherman, etc.), to still be able to stay in the game if you re losing the infantry vet game. Its simply a great additional option for OKW allowing for a more diverse gameplay.
Your last two sentences are a very negative interpretation of a very good development. Switching things up in a way which improves gameplay (as pointed out above) is a great thing, relic deserves kudos for. |
I love how I suggest an incredibly marginal fuel adjustment (5 fuel on 135 isn't even really a fucking buff. It's so marginal it may as well be a tweak) and everyone jumps on either a massive nerf or buff bandwagon, or "OKW are broken I'm angry gimme attention!!111!11!!"
haha this funny
For some people internet is the place to finally be the massive arrogant angry c*** they always were at heart with impunity, but in this thread I think its still acceptable.
I think relic (and us) needs more playtesting to decide on the proper fuel cost. For now they just made sure OKW doesnt get a cheap goto medium tank for every game. Good approach and keeps angry trolls at bay.
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I really like this change a lot! For those of you out of the loop, the P4 is now buildable from the Schwerer Panzer HQ for 360 MP and 135 fuel.
I fear though that the fuel cost is prohibitive. It's a medium tank for appreciably more than it's equals (on top of having the OKW fuel nerf). I mean, the tank is good, but not 135 fuel + OKW fuel nerf good. And it's a lot more fragile than a panther. A panther is "only" 40 more fuel. It's a hard sell to not try stick it out. So I'm afraid this unit won't see much love. A 5 or 10 fuel price adjustment is in line I think. Still, it has a lot of potential.
I also love this change. And I also am not sure about the cost since you make a valid point.
But you have to consider that fuel-starved OKW has also other units to invest in, saving the 40 fuel for a Stuka/2nd P4/MechHQ/etc. can be viable if you re playing against a rather inf heavy opponent. The P4 increases options and can work as a generalist "safety net", since it has more decent AI capabilities than a panther. I can imagine situations where going for two P4s being the better option than one panther. Particularly in 1v1.
Anyways, we ll see in the upcoming month i guess. |
PIV for OKW makes my eyes water of joy.
Exactly what this faction needed to become well-rounded. Medium armor.
Been playing the patch since yesterday, and everything feels rly good. This year's coh2 meta development will be quite exiting imho.
In contrary to vcoh, coh2 gets better with each expansion. Thus I m really looking forward to the british faction.
RTS fans finally have something to look forward to. |
I was simply informing you on why the Hammer and Sickle is present in games like this and the Swastika isn't from a legal standpoint, minus all the political BS and dramatic trappings.
By all means, argue about legality vs legitimacy, but the fact of the matter is Relic and other companies that make games like this are only going to base their decisions on the laws that apply to them, in the countries they wish to release their game within.
And I was merely stating my dissatisfaction with the legal situation (I am well aware of), because it seems not right from my point of view. Siegermachtspropaganda.
No worries mate.
cheers. |
Nope.
The only reason the Hammer and Sickle is present in game and the Swastika is not is due to legal issues in places that this game is bought and sold.
The Hammer and Sickle is not an illegal symbol in the nations that this game is available for download/purchase.
There are a few eastern European nations that do have restrictions on the Hammer and Sickle, but they are vastly few and far between compared to the limitations on Swastika's.
If you really believe that legality equals legitimacy, then you are absolutely right with your initial denial of my point of view. |
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