Profile of The Dave

The Questions:

• What do you consider to be competitive gaming?
  
  Well that depends really. Having a ladder or ranking system where the game puts an emphasis on trying to win can be considered competitive imo. Traditionally though, I would consider a game competitive if there is an organized form of formal competition (ladder, ranks, tourneys, leagues, LAN Events, etc) that is structured around a balanced game. The "balanced" wording is key because without an equal opportunity for each team or individual to achieve victory the game is not competitive. There are ways to incorporate balance considerations and this is done using map selections, randomization, LAN Events etc. I find it's easier for FPS's (COD, CS, Quake, etc) to be more "competitive" simply because they allow the organization to manipulate the parameters of the game to establish fairness but they require an address of connection issues. LoL and Starcraft have achieved competitive play through closely monitoring the balance of their games. To be fair, my experience with both those franchises I just mentioned is very limited.
  
  
• What games have you considered to have played competitively? How involved did you get?
  
  Delta Force (1998) and Counter-Strike were my first competitive games and really the only ones I've ever played. Both were tactical-team based FPS games. Delta Force was arguably one of the greatest, and first, competitive communities to evolve around a video game. The community itself was so passionate about the game and their individual "team" or "squad" that the competitive aspect of the game lasted wayyyy longer than the support for the game from the now dead Novalogic which produced a series of AWFUL sequels in an attempt to try and capitalize on the success of their first effort - although DF: Blackhawk Down was a nice try I guess. I was much more involved in DF (one of the best players in the game) than CS but was on a Cal-Main team for 1.6 during it's heyday.
  
  
• For games you don't play do you watch any vods or streams? If so which games?
  
  Sometimes just to see if they look worth purchasing it - "Let's plays" and what not. They're various.
  
  
• Have you ever been to an offline or in person competitive event?
  
  No but I think it would be fun to compete with a team at one. Individually, no thanks.
  
  
• What do you believe makes a game competitive?
  
  Think I laid that out in my answer to Question 1, but I think it takes a combination of a great game that allows for competitive communities to birth from its game-play and support from the developer/community that plays it. I also think, and this has been somewhat limited in the video game marketplace, that connection and logistical issues play a pivotal role in how limited the scope of how competitive the game can be. DF solved this problem because their netcode is now archaic. The game required like a 28.8k modem to play and was hosted by a personal PC of someone you hoped had a high speed internet connection when those were in their infancy. I stomped fools on my 33.6k AOL internet or whatever because that's how I rolled. Still...7v7 and 8v8 matches were the standard and it incorporated players all over the world because you could either be effective simply because you lagged across the screen and people had to lead their bullets farther ahead of you (bad connection to host) or you mowed people down easily but also died easily (good connection to host). Teammates were loyal and what squad you were on was a BIG deal, like resume building stuff for other teams. They organized two huge get-togethers where people traveled from all over the world to meet up to just play the game. CS solved the problem because the game was popular enough that they could fill out leagues according to regions (CAL-M, EAST or CAL-IM CENTRAL for example) and you could purchase home servers that acted like a home stadium. That type of competitive atmosphere in gaming still hasn't been matched IMO, for me at least.
  
  
• Have you produced any content or organised any competitive events for any games? If not are you interested?
  
  I may have helped do some work in DF but I can't remember as I was pretty young back then. I have organized competitive events in games of real life - I organized soccer (football) tournaments. Sure.
  
  
• Who do you believe is instrumental in building a strong competitive community?
  
  Combination of developer, the players, and the community sites that administer the leagues, tourneys or whatnot. I know this has been somewhat incorporated with MLG and stuff recently. That's not a bad thing as those guys who dedicate their lives to gaming deserve to be paid big dollars, and MLG has the big dollars. However, I don't think it takes big dollars to make a strong competitive community, just a combination of a great game, people who are passionate enough about it to care about both the community and events taking place within that community, and a solid player base that shows up for events. It helps to be able to build teams/squads/clans in your game/community because this allows for people to cling to it. They are more likely to get involved if there is a shared experience to be had and something to keep them attached to the game. This is why no one goes bowling alone really. Going back to my fond memories of DF I remember that just being recognized as being on one of the top teams in the game was enough. I didn't need a monetary prize and very little was ever given away as a prize in the game (I mean how do you split small amounts of cash with 8-12 people living all over the world?). One time my mouse ball (yep, you read that right) was bugging out and the team leader asked me for my address and sent me a brand new laser mouse - free having never met me but because he needed/wanted me to play on the team. I still play games with those same people now. The pride and friendships that were established through teamwork that the competitive atmosphere around DF evoked was seriously a defining moment in my life which is strange to say, but it is a testament to how engaging competitive gaming can be.
  
  I hope you guys find a way to get that into this game.

I agree with everything you said. 100%. The bugs and just overall shoddy craftsmanship in this game compared to their last effort is frighteningly woeful. I have not heard from the devs an address to the various bugs that are in the game like you mentioned. Hope they hear you, one of us, or all of us.

Furthermore - this map is garbage.

This has happened a few times.

Everything will just crash to desktop and then I'll get an error report. When I try to restart COH2 I get an "Updating COH2" screen from Steam and can't play for like 10 minutes.

WTF?

Shit like this is why the game isn't worth 60 bucks.

These entitlement posts are so funny. I remember when you would buy a game cartridge and there was no such thing as post-launch support. If you didn't like the game, there were no forums in which you could whine about it, and there were no Gameshops to trade it in. Also, I've dumped plenty of quarters into crap arcade cabinets. Either you enjoy the developers' vision and rulesets or you don't. I have countless games I won't finish or that I have tossed aside but I initially bought most games because I was interested in the product or premise. If a game failed my inner child's ADD, at least there was the hope that my money would help the company develop an improved sequel.

These days, I love when developers want to support their games and even offer additional content and patchwork. But with this entitlement attitude, you seem to imply that if you don't enjoy the entire game, the developing company should just fail and hand back everyone their precious monies. Please don't encourage the lemmings.

Don't get me wrong as I'm not attempting to troll you personally and I can sympathise with much of your thoughtful post, but I get depressed reading all of these defamatory and slanderous Headers and Posts. It only adds more fuel to the unfounded flamers out there.

If you want your money back, go work a few hours and earn it back. Regard your 60 as a small personal loss, yet a contribution to the community in good faith that the company will only improve. Instead think of all the money lost to the shit you put in your mouth. I don't get a picket sign out and demand McDonlds give me a refund every time my freedom fries are cold or I get the dire runs. I simply stop giving them more money and on the plus I stay regular. c'est la vie!

That's a cute statement about your internal politics, and I'm sure you had a nice time memorializing playing at the arcade. I did as well. Fortunately, or unfortunately for you I should say, this isn't the 1990's anymore. They're not coming back. Companies should be held more accountable for putting out half-assed crap. That's part of my reasoning. Every day Relic leaves this game in this state, there are more people like me who really have found that they do not enjoy this game and will eventually uninstall - moving on to another game. And yes, I bought the game initially because I wanted to support one of my favorite games of all time in VCoH in the hopes that a sequel would be better than the original. It looks like I made a bad investment at this moment but investors have a say in the direction of a company. Do I expect to get my money back? No...I never did. Like I said, it's a title that's supposed to grab you. Do I wish I wouldn't have purchased the game and would encourage others who haven't played it yet to not purchase it until the game is fully worth it's price? Yes. Is this something I feel as a consumer that the producer should be held to? Yes.

As far as "entitlements" I don't know what you're referring to. I'm not claiming I shouldn't work and be paid a fee of money to just exist or be given comprehensive health insurance just because. I'm asking for accountability on the part of the company that produced a product I purchased. Like I said, video games have evolved to one of the only forms of media that are dynamic enough to change for the better or worse. There is the ability for a company to make up for its mistakes. I'm simply asking that this particular company do so in some fashion that warrants its purchase price.

Now that's a good post, I can agree with. You might not like CoH2, but you made an informed choice and stuck with it. Simple as that. We knew what we were getting all along. There are no excuses.

I'm not saying Dave's post is wrong or misinformed, but he did have a wide window of opportunity to cancel a pre-order/not buy it.

The title is to grab your attention.

Currently this game is not worth 60 bucks. Every review I've read reflects this as well as my own individual playing experience.

Furthermore my grounds for claiming I want my money back DO NOT stem from balance issues. Bad games are bad games and there's suckers who buy bad games. Because the first one was really good there are a lot of suckers here today. My beef comes from the technical issues with the game. Simply put, the requirements to run this game that are posted are misleading. This is an unpolished and underdeveloped game forced into release with a limited budget. The criteria stated to run this game smoothly (I don't think averaging 30 fps at 1080 with my pc is too hard to ask with no dropoffs during weather - it's not Crysis 3) does not transition to the actual game experience. This is misleading information and grounds for claiming that I want my money back.