Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But if you're practicing for a tournament, you're going to want to have access to everything you'll have access to in the tournament game. That means you're using your best items in practice, and you're losing more supply than you're gaining in practice. Furthermore, in CoHO you received less supply when you played custom games than when you automatched, which means a tournament player is actively punished for playing proper practice matches.
No matter how you slice it, it's a terrible situation for anybody who wants to play the game competitively, and this isn't even accounting for the fact that ladder players who pay money would have more consistent access to the best items than ladder players who don't pay. The ladder is the competitive environment that the largest number of players have access to, and it's arguably the one most affected by this system.
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Register Time: 18 Nov 2012, 16:42 PM
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Register Time: 18 Nov 2012, 16:42 PM
Last Visit Time: 12 Jun 2024, 23:57 PM
Broadcast: https://www.twitch.tv/inversetv
Website: http://twitch.tv/InverseTV
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Steam: 76561197999799366
Birthday: 1991-04-04
Nationality: Canada
Timezone: America/Toronto
Game Name: RoMInverse
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Post History of Inverse
Thread: In Game Store???26 Feb 2015, 21:41 PM
In: Lobby |
Thread: In Game Store???26 Feb 2015, 20:12 PM
In the CoHO system items lasted around 5 games before breaking, depending on the length of the games being played, which isn't enough games to complete a tournament. In: Lobby |
Thread: In Game Store???26 Feb 2015, 18:51 PM
Not even close. It had far less that CoH1, and CoH1 was peaking at around 10k players per day at that time. In: Lobby |
Thread: In Game Store???26 Feb 2015, 15:59 PM
It's actually funny because COH2.ORG was devised specifically to be the hub of CoH competitive play. It's unfortunate that there still exists people who think you can't have compelling casual play unless you flip off the competitive scene. Interestingly enough, the two most popular games on Steam right now are hardcore competitive games with vibrant casual communities. You're a fool if you think the two are mutually exclusive. In: Lobby |
Thread: In Game Store???26 Feb 2015, 14:23 PM
You're right, buying new factions can be seen as buying options, but it's not really in the same ballpark as something like commanders or ToV units. Having an extra faction doesn't help you in a single automatch game, for instance, while having purchased commanders definitely can. The two are on completely different levels in my opinion, though I see how they relate and I understand it does weaken my argument. As for the ToV units, there was heavy resistance to the concept in the CoH1 community when that expansion was announced and released. We got really lucky that the new units were not, for the most part, drastically superior to their original counterparts, but still, if you're a Brit player who doesn't own ToV you're at a major disadvantage in the current metagame because Brits really need Stags in order to be competitive. I think that's a bullshit situation and it should be avoided at all costs. I see commanders as dozens of mini ToV expansions, which is why I think it's a concept that's so detrimental to gameplay. The only proper competitive game I can think of that has a similar system is League of Legends, and even then tournament players are given access to all game content so it's less of a problem.
So you think it's awesome that someone playing in a tournament is going to have to decide between paying money to repair their items or playing with less potent ones? That literally directly gives an advantage to the player who is willing to pay. I've said in every post I've made on this subject, if you don't care about competition then the CoHO system was alright. My posts have directly targeted how fucking awful it is for the competitive scene. Yes they did There's a big difference between complaining that a company is charging for something and complaining that the content they're charging for is irrelevant, uninteresting, or too expensive. Nobody with any sense expected the WFA factions, ToW missions, or AA campaign be released for free, which was the point of my statement. Even with it's pay to win coho online was regarded as a great game(in the top 20 greatest of all times even). There was never any shortage of people online. It had so much variety that any shortcomings could be esily overlooked. Fun trumps fair when you are talking about any game in my opinion. Coh2 lacked variety from the get go and then came the nerfing sprees and the unique but gimmicky wf factions. People aren't talking about how fun the game is but whats wrong with it. It was a great game but it only lasted 7 months? How does that make sense? I never saw it above 2000 concurrents any time I played before they removed the player count from the interface. You can't be wrong about what you like, but it's hard to see how a game that shut down after a 7-month beta can be considered a success. It was a success in that it got people interested in CoH that might not have been otherwise, but that's about it. In: Lobby |
Thread: In Game Store???25 Feb 2015, 23:12 PM
Paying to "add variety to gameplay" is the same as paying for an advantage, just not as direct. Having more gameplay options in an RTS is an inherent advantage. Paying for new factions is one thing, but paying to make an existing faction more robust is an entirely different situation. You shouldn't have to pay a cent in order to ensure you're on an even playing field with your opponent. There needs to be a reason for players to stick around and grind games in coh2. Thats how modern online gaming is nowadays. Games that don't use this concept will plummet in playernumbers because other games are pulling them in. 10k active players is not really good when you are supposed to be one of the leading RTS developer. So yeah thats why i understand the need for them to work on some kind of system to keep players coming back to the game other than just having fun. You're right, they need something. But they need something that will preserve gameplay integrity at the same time. A system that is extremely detrimental to your most dedicated players is not the answer. In: Lobby |
Thread: In Game Store???25 Feb 2015, 22:10 PM
It has nothing to do with them trying to make money and everything to do with how they're trying to make money. There are a lot of proven ways to monetize your game that have zero impact on the actual gameplay. By monetizing commanders with unique units and abilities, Relic is letting players pay for more options. If you're trying to compete in a strategy game, having more options is an advantage, so by letting players pay for more options, they're indirectly letting players pay for a strategic advantage in their games. Now let's pretend Relic implements the CoHO shop system. We have no idea if they will or not, but let's just pretend they do. Suddenly your commanders and bulletins only last a few games before you have to repair them with supply. That's fine and dandy until you realize that your super fancy King Tiger costs more supply to repair than you receive for free after each game. Suddenly you're faced with a decision: do I remove my King Tiger every few games and accept playing with inferior units, or do I pay Relic a few bucks for the privilege of continuing to be able to use this unit in every single game? Now if you're a casual player who picks up the game every once in a while, that system is fine. But if you're even remotely inclined to play your strategy games competitively, or if you're playing in a tournament or other competition, you want access to the best units possible so that you can have the best chance to win. That means you either have to pay up or accept that you'll be at an inherent disadvantage before the game even starts if you happen to play against someone who's willing to spend money when you aren't. Don't you see how that's a problem? Now you're directly paying for an in-game advantage over someone who isn't willing to spend extra money for the game. It's not about people feeling entitled or being cheap or any of that bullshit, it's about the developers putting their business model before gameplay integrity. That's a middle finger to the subset of the community which actually takes the game seriously, which is much of the game's most dedicated fans and the target audience of this forum, hence the resistance to these sorts of endeavours. When Relic charged people for the WFA factions, nobody bitched. When Relic charged for a new single-player campaign in AA, nobody bitched. When Relic charged for new ToW missions, nobody bitched. When Relic added new skins and faceplates and victory strikes and decals, nobody bitched. Why? Because these all make perfect sense to charge for, and they don't affect the integrity of the gameplay. But when you charge for things like commanders that give players unique gameplay options, or when you (potentially) implement a system that forces players to pay in order to consistently use their best units and abilities, you fuck over those people who want to compete without getting nickle-and-dimed to death. In other words, you fuck over a lot of the people who frequent these boards. Change is great; I don't think you'll find many people who don't think CoH2 needs to change if it's going to improve. But adding the CoHO shop system to CoH2 isn't a good change; it's a disaster to anyone who cares about playing this game even remotely seriously. And it's a whole lot easier to spot something like this while it's in the development phase than when it's already been coded and released. Why would you just blindly assume something is going to be great, especially when it comes from a company with a track record like Relic's? There's nothing wrong with being skeptical and taking issue with the direction Relic appears to be taking the game based on the information we have. In: Lobby |
Thread: In Game Store???25 Feb 2015, 16:49 PM
Nah man, Volks with 24% extra health were great. So were Volks with extra health and free MP40s, MGs that could run twice as fast as other infantry, Engineers with free elite armour and flamethrowers, Rifles with free BARs and grenades... I still remember the days of talking to Stefan Haines about CoHO and him adamantly defending his decision to add an ability that gave you free infantry squads for every one you lost during its duration. Good times. I think I still have the CoHO t-shirt that Relic sent me. In: Lobby |
Thread: In Game Store???25 Feb 2015, 14:31 PM
You could buy everything from the store actually, except for a few specifically drop-only items if I recall correctly. You also couldn't consistently use rare bulletins/units unless you paid for supply because you couldn't afford to repair them all with the supply you got after games. If you saved up a decent supply bank you could go for a while, but you would be spending more than you were receiving and eventually you would run out. In: Lobby |
Thread: In Game Store???25 Feb 2015, 14:13 PM
was COHO store mechanic good? Depends on your perspective. If you were a casual player it was great, you could get everything for free eventually. If you were a competitive player it was shit, you couldn't use the best stuff every game unless you paid money for supply because you didn't get enough free supply to be able to constantly repair the good stuff. It was like, you'd get 2000 free supply on average after every game. That was enough to ensure you could use, say, common and uncommon items every game (in CoHO those were things like intel bulletins and hero units, in CoH2 it'll likely be bulletins and commander abilities, though we don't know yet). However, the most effective items were rare and extremely rare, and they cost more to repair. Therefore, if you wanted to consistently use those rarer, better items, you had to purchase supply from the store. If you didn't purchase supply, you would have to cycle out rare items with less rare ones some games until you saved up enough supply to repair the better items. This was a big problem in tournaments, because you were obviously playing a lot of games in quick succession and wanted to be able to use the best stuff every game, which was difficult without paying because items would last around 5 games before they broke and couldn't be used until they got repaired. Ultimately, it was great for your average player because everything was available for a price (there might have been drop-only items, I can't remember) and you had something to constantly work toward, but it was pretty awful for anyone trying to compete because if you didn't pay money and your opponent did you would often be at an item disadvantage. In: Lobby |
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