Aye, I was also on the receiving end of that one. It's an uber-Maxim that also shreds light vehicles. The whole doctrine is extremely FHT and AC proof, in fact. But you pay for it with no end-game ability and no elite infantry, so that's the trade-off IMO. If you don't manage to get in a comfortable position early game, you will probably lose. And the DSHK sucks on some maps too.
So while it's not perfectly balanced, it's a far cry from the ridiculous pay to win sillyness of the other two.
Yeah, it seems so
The only game I faced this, I was using my fast-T2 strat anyway so I easily bypassed their MGs with Scout cars and Halftracks.
EDIT: I think the reason it worked was because he didn't have enough maxims on Moscow Outskirts and bundle nades are really good against this. But I could imagine this being very potent in Semiosky
Hmm, I don't think sov defensive works too well against fast T2 |
Ok then tell me why 3 su 85s should take out 2 tigers since you are mr objective?
IMO, it should be harder to take out 2 tigers in 3 su 85s since there are two tanks you have to deal with.
But when you're only dealing with 1 tiger (even with buffed attack stats), it can only shoot an SU-85 down so fast, esp if you damage its engine (which isn't difficult, can be done with mines and AT Nades). So 3 SU-85s should take it down.
In any case, 3 SU-85s represents a huge commitment to AT for the soviets 3/10 of their pop is locked up and 2 of them costs even more (or the same) to call in than just one Tiger.
So if 3-4 SU-85s can't stop a tiger, nothing will.
Also, from experience, the Tiger Ace seems to have very good AI stats. I just watched it take out at least 2 models in one go with almost all of its shots. |
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Inb4 hotfix
But yeah, I think the only counter to vetted Grens is snipers. But vetted P4s are so good already, in midgame, you're screwed if you see them. |
3 SUS SHOULD NOT TAKE OUT A TIGER ACE. A Tiger Ace is 2 tigers in 1 skin. And its a hell of alot more expensive then 2 tigers since once you buy it your game is done unless you win it then and there.
Say Hip hip Hooray for the Deustchland Fanboy |
Vet 3 isn't as godly as it was before, but a Vet 3 lmg gren squad you can get for a ridiculously cheap price (55mp/20fuel) one minute into the game will murder 2 conscript squads. It's impossible to beat that commander with a normal commander unless the other player is far far worse than you.
If he does that, try T1 and molotovs, snipers will always work.
Ultimately, you will have an advantage in Teching anyway. |
The tiger ace is not alone, the tiger ace is free so for every SU85 you have on the field, there is a P4 for the Germans. Just "get snipers and AT guns/SU-85s" does not work, just to get one of each is 1000mp and 115 feul, which takes 5 minutes to get, more if you suffer losses and need to reinforce. It takes the German army a minute to waltz across a 1v1 map, kill your army and than proceed to kill your base.
The only way to kill the tiger ace is when you are a vastly superior player and have managed to cripple the German player before he can call in the tiger ace. There are no timings to exploit, no resource advantage to abuse. Either you already have 4 tanks and he has none, or you lose.
The essence of the tiger ace is that it has a broken design. You can't have a balanced game where one player needs to destroy the other player before 7CP or lose because of a free call-in. Other heavy tanks are balanced by the fact that you need to save up a lot of resources before you can call them in, which gives an equally skilled opponent something to exploit. The tiger ace does not.
That's kinda true. I think the guy who I was playing against at the time wasn't that great. That said, you should have AT options and snipers anyway before he gets a tiger. Also, if he's vetting infantry, then SU-76 is sooooo good against it.
In the end, when I figured out how to kill it, it more or less cost me my whole army (this was on Minsk pocket btw). But I still stand by the fact that you still have to win within 5 minutes with the Tiger Ace.
Or you lose due to being bled out. The Tiger Ace simply can't prop up everything, esp on some of the big maps in the 1v1 arena (it might be able to work better in Langres or Semois though).
EDIT: I forgot to add that, before I rebuilt another SU-85 against all of my armour which got killed, I damaged his engine and he was never able to get the engine back up, esp when I killed all of his pios. With a damaged engine, the SU-85 definitely has the advantage over range. |
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The essence of the Tiger Ace
If you see a tiger ace, get snipers and AT guns/SU-85s immediately.
Snipers can not only spot, they also kill infantry, so if you kill all of his pioneers, he'll find that he can't repair his tiger ace, and it will be doomed.
Also, the SU-85 does outrange the tiger so retreating your SU-85 all the time tends to work.
The essence of the tiger ace is - if you don't win immediately, you lose the whole game. Snipers will end up bleeding you out on MP if you don't win in, say, 5 minutes. |
Lol 4 minute T-70. What part of Game killing don't ppl get 
Seriously, light armour that early....
BB infantry wars I guess... |
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Played a guy who used this. My thoughts exactly.
Essentially, as sovs, your units vet up faster and the ways to combat this I find (not counter) include
a) Indirect units
b) Molotovs (ignores armour)
c) Sniper
Also, I tried using the SU-76 against the initial infantry army. The later the German armour comes out, the even more potent the SU-76 is. It was able to rack up a fair few kills.
Oh and the Tiger Ace is not a tank which you can send to the enemy base and say "I win". Did end up killing it but cost me my whole army.
Ultimately, your best weapon against these tactics is unit preservation. |
Well that depends. I can't recall but people who can remember that, was this type of veterancy in vCoH considered OP?
Anyways, here is the link and the costs. Kampfkraft center Not that cheap, fuel wise.
Besides that, we don't know if the system now is going to be completely the same, nor if paid veterancy will be available for all type of units. I hope they've thoroughly tested and balanced it though 
Not really. It tended to be expensive on the fuel which you could spend going towards a Puma or Tier 4 but otherwise it wasn't too OP.
The problem with implementing it in this game is the whole game is based around getting vet on the field, not buying it, and you're now telling me the Germans can now buy vet?
I can only imagine balance hell from this. Either no-one's going to use it or it's going to be OP as hell. |
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