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I uploaded this replay because there's a thread that includes a discussion of 120's. I wasn't the one using them but think it proved my point. Leig's counter them well enough that you're not going to take down a Schwerer. They also don't do enough to justify purchasing them.
The Cliff notes version of this is: Buy 2 120's, lose to someone 600 (yes, six hundred) ranks below you. |
And have little chance of getting a squad wipe...
From all the units with access to camo LMG grenadiers is one of the worse n getting squad wipes and rifle grenades do not have good synergy with camo.
Camo LMG grens almost as good as JLI at killing snipers and better than PG's unless the sniper is being careless. They're probably not going to wipe squads like a PG but still worth camo cost. |
I think the best solution is to require Green cover camouflage for the bonus to come into effect.
This might be too much of a nerf. I'd rather see them implement a movement timer for the ambush bonus and slow movement under cloak before requiring green cover. I don't like sniper play much so when facing a sniper, it is nice to be able to cloak a JLI, Falls, or even Gren in yellow cover.
Just out of curiosity, is any unit besides Falls causing a problem with first strike bonuses? It seems like Storm doctrine camo has been around forever with no complaints, same with commandos, and I don't remember any buffs to them recently. |
Yes, those are the number I used.
In your own calculations:
OH: Full 1070/235
OKW: Full 1100/265
UKF: Full 1360/270
How in the hell do you time and time again claim that axis have more expensive tech. Your own numbers. OH<OKW<UKF . Any way you look at it. Total of all techs - axis is cheaper. Rush to last tech - axis is cheaper. T2 - axis is cheaper.
You'll go around and around all day with this. I did for a few posts on the other thread. The absolute numbers show Axis is cheaper. The quickest route to heavies is also Axis (see Sanders posts on thread for Pershing Timing Needs a Nerf).
USF's full numbers are 1240/270, but includes 3 officers so it's cheaper on manpower and worse on fuel. I wish they would balance it out. Even just changing the officers to 280/25 would help. They'd have to make the sidetech for M20 take longer or it would arrive too early. |
Kv8 tank secondary gun cant even destroy light vehicles.
Flame attacking infantry, it takes 1 min to kill a damn squad wiith it. How is it juistified that FIRE kills so SLOW??!?? It should kill infanytry immidiately!!!!! Before the damn flame tank kills anything, the enemy has already retreated his troops.
KV8 is the most underpowered tank in the game. I bet there were so many kids complaining abut flame vehicless that they decided to nerf this tank to oblivion.
M4c tank is the most overpriced tank in this game!
T84s' are garbage, no further words needed.
STOP NERFING AND RUINING THE GAME!
ANTI TANK SHOULD BE EFFECTIVE VS TANKS< DONT RUIN IT!!!
ANTI INFANTRY SHOULD BE EFFECTIVE VS INFANTRY< DONT RUIN IT!
IM GETTING SICK AND TIRED OF THE NERFING EVERYTHING THAT SHOULD BE GOOD, MAKING EVERYTHING MEDIOCRE!
I play a lot of Soviets and not sure if I agree with most of this.
The T34 is priced just fine according to its performance. Same for the T34/85. The SU85 is my second favorite TD after the JP4 (on most maps). The ISU may have lost some popularity but it is still a beast.
My biggest complaint is that Falls have a faust so once you get two of them together, they can tell T34's to eff off. Also, the KV8 does seem week compared to the flame Hetzer. It's one of my least favorites. |
Did the test. While you lose on RoF, the increased AoE means that the avg dmg done on misses equalises with the RoF of the normal mortar.
Then it's a matter of whether you can use the extended 20 range or not. Whether you want a reliable mortar or an unreliable hard hitter.
As like 2 years ago after nerfs, if you have T2, just get a normal mortar. If you don't, get the 120mm. If you are not playing 1v1 and have absolute domination over your opponent manpower wise, 2x 120mm might be worth.
Thanks for doing the tests. The 120 is also more pop cap (6vs10?), which also means more upkeep, so it always seems better to just build T2 if I need a mortar. I probably wouldn't mind the 120 as much if it was 270/7 like the LEIG. Even then, it seems too inconsistent. |
Isn't it proper to give the reference link to your essay?
Your posts are so long that it's difficult to see quickly what you are proposing. Most of us don't want a essay or dissertation. |
tbh either is a better fit than the kv8.
Mini at gun could be ok.
This doctrine would be interesting if they replaced the KV8 with the KV1, replaced self repair with Guards, and let the KV2 switch between siege and normal faster.
For the people that worry about themes, it would be coherent. For most of us, it would give the Soviets good breakthrough power with KV1's backed by a KV2. |
snip
Does this have something to do with the Ultrafast Keto thread or are you proposing something else? |
Instead of theory crafting test in game you will see that 120mm if far superior to MP-41 vs Static building and trucks.
Instead of assuming check the stat yourself...
Both fire and autofire have a range 100.
The Leig is a very poor counter to the 120mm especially if the mortar us placed behind shot blockers.
I have probably 40 games as OKW this patch. I've seen 120's in two or three of them, and not lost anything to them. Most of the time I just hear the telltale sound of the woosh, followed by the thought that some idiot just bought a 120.
I decided to be that idiot four times this patch. In 3 of the 4 games, it did next to nothing and had a hard time vetting so that it could get flares. In the other game, the other team obligingly decided to garrison while under mortar fire so I got an okay amount of retreats/kills/etc. In none of the games was it good enough to take down a conservatively placed truck. Either of them are okay at taking down aggressive trucks, but it never justifies the extra cost, particularly when it comes at a time when manpower is at a premium. |
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