Profile of comm_ash

A good game that shows a good way to deal with an OKW forward battlegroup HQ.

Soviet number of really useful units is far more than ostheer.Let's count

Infantry & support-
Conscripts
Sniper.
Maxim
81mm mortar
120 mm
shocks
Zis-3

Armor and artillery -

B4
Katyusha
Su-85
T-34/85
IS-2
ISU-152
KV-8
Quad Halftrack

Ostheer -

Inf and support -

Grenadiers.
81mm mortar
Pak 40
Pak43

Armor and artillery -

Tiger
Panther
Stug E


There -You can see for yourself buddy.
Soviets have more powerful infantry once shocks are out.
Far superior artillery.
Equal armor.
Better mines.

Decide yourself.

This does not seem to me to be a very good reflection of ostheer.

Infantry:

Pgrens - I make god use out of them and find them to be some of the best non-doctrinal infantry in the game. The problem I find is getting people out of the mindset that they are assault troops, they are not. They are defensive/ flanking/ support troops. They can also be upgraded later in the game to have 2 pshrecks. Yes they are fragile. This means that you cannot charge shermans with them. Use them behind LOS blockers to support your paks and ambush vehicles that go deep.

Ostruppen - Some of my favorite units, they give 2v2 ostheer a very lacking early game punch while also allowing you to lock down vast sections of certain maps with a simple 2-3 ostruppen + command bunker + mg42. Allowing the rest of your forces to help your ally across the other sectors of the map. The best part is that with ostruppen, teching to t4 is quite possible and allows you to be powerful in the lategame as well with non-doctrinal armor that is more fuel efficient (in the long run) and just as capable as an IS-2. The doctrine even allows you to spend munitions on tellers, which many ostheer players find to be a luxury item.

Support:

mg42 - Definitely needs a buff, but is invaluable vs. USF in the early game. A single mg42 can shut down a rifle blob early game, and this is why I get it as my second unit. Requires a fair bit of tactics to use correctly, but is by no means a useless unit, especially when taken with ambush camo.

Mortar HT - Best mobile early game artillery support. Incendiary barrage hardcounters support weapon spam and the entire soviet urban defense doctrine. Also comes in the best doctrine in the game.

Halftrack - The earliest and most accessible HT in the game, with enough armor that it needs the enemy to invest in AT to bring it down reliably. It is also cheap and by and far one of the best ostheer units for supporting an offensive strategy in the early game.

Armor:

P4: By and far the most powerful medium tank in the game, and able to come out slightly slower than a t34/76.
I have never understood people who call the p4 a bad unit. It is a far greater AI platform than a t34/76 and comparable with a sherman, while also having relatively good AT power as well as much better scalability due to the vet 2 armored skirts upgrade. Requires micro to beat t34/85 and sherman e8/76, but not much more than the miro required to allow one t34/76 to fight a panzer 4. Not to mention the fact that p4s also get non-doc lolblitz and doctrinal smoke to keep it alive long beyond its curtain call. The biggest reason that p4s are not seen more often (besides the existance of the tiger) is the jackson, whch is a dediated AT platform. 2 p4 + 1 pak > 1 jackson + 1 sherman + 1 AT gun.

Sturmpanzer 4 - Inaccessible, but one of my favorite AI units in the game. If you build one after a panther, and support it with AT guns, it is one of the best AI platforms in the games and certainly the best at supporting lategame armored rushes by decrewing AT guns and supporting infantry pushes. Not to mention its ability to stun even soviet heavies very reliably.

All in all, I would conclude that as queenratchet said, the problem with ostheer is not in unit availability or redundancy, but in the exorbitant teching osts to get you there. I can tell you right now that if all allins got nerfed in some way to make doctrinal units more appealing, ostheer will have an undoubted lategame advantage. Especially if the asked for change to make the jackson less of a one - hit - wonder goes through.

Depends how hipster you are.

RTS market, well, except SC2 and CoH2 is as good as dead.

Don't forget Wargame, though I still believe that 50% of the people buy it for the in-game chat.

Thanks for the reply. Regarding smoke, I meant smoke for covering flanking infantry for attacking Maxim/50 cal positions.

Obersoldatan and falls have a vet1 smoke grenade that can be used to damage units. Unfortunately, the damage makes it a mostly defensive tool. Obers can usually kill maxims from the front at range, same with the USF M2hb. Other than that, you need to rely on LOS blockers to pull off flanks on mgs, or use elite infantry to pop out of buildings.

I agree that the problem is not infantry DPS, but lategame infantry that ignore the rules other infantry must live by.

Example: Shocks have an armor value to allow them to take less damage while closing into short range to deal damage. Shocks can sit at long range and use the armor to tank damage for a long period of time. However, they do so by giving up their ability to deal damage. Obers do not have this problem. They have received accuracy modifiers, enabling them to tank damage at all ranges. However, being a long range squad, they do not need the received accuracy modifier as much as say shocks, which leads to obers sitting at long range melting close range infantry. By scaling the received accuracy/ armor values to the unit they are applied to, I believe we can see a much better balanced lategame.