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russian armor

Opinion on new IS-2?

16 Sep 2013, 14:20 PM
#61
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

...so, has anyone found a good way to work the IS-2 into their game? I haven't had a chance to use one (like, ever, actually. Maybe once in the beta)


I use it often now. It depends on the situation, but if the German player is not spamming t2 vehicles you can safely wait to get it. I basically rely on 4 cons, 1 shock, 1 AT, 1 morter or maxim before getting the required points to call it in. If they have t3 tanks it will do an awesome job fighting them off, especially against panzer 4.
16 Sep 2013, 16:32 PM
#62
avatar of Appleseed

Posts: 622

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2013, 09:08 AMNullist

How many times did u fire panzerfaust in total, 100 deflects versus how many penetrations?


i didn't recall clearly how many but i only countered IS2 3-4 times after new patch can't remember correctly (not many because i didn't play german much after new patch, and about information before the new patch i don't remember i am not a computer you know) but i do remember clearly in 1 game i fired two faust on a IS2 using 2 gren one after another because the first one didn't cost engine damage (that is also the time i see it didn't work).
16 Sep 2013, 16:52 PM
#63
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

finaaaalllllllyyyyyy, I got a deflect on my IS2 today, it made me so happy
16 Sep 2013, 17:27 PM
#64
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2013, 14:16 PMAbdul


Actually that is very "called for" because as your comments indicate, you don't use the unit. Reading stats of some source is not the same.

As for why your comment is "uncalled for", its because no body brought up that issue except you, and you did so to ARGUE.


As has been pointed out, there is nothing wrong with Faust penetration/deflection.

I'm not the one "arguing" that there was.

I'm also not the one claiming to have seen 10-15 Fausts sequentially penetrate IS2s, at a 0.2-0.0003% probability.

Its working fine.
16 Sep 2013, 17:30 PM
#65
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2013, 17:27 PMNullist


As has been pointed out, there is nothing wrong with Faust penetration/deflection.

I'm not the one "arguing" that there was.

I'm also not the one claiming to have seen 10-15 Fausts sequentially penetrate IS2s, at a 0.2-0.0003% probability.

Its working fine.


continue arguing to yourself
16 Sep 2013, 23:48 PM
#66
avatar of timujin.il

Posts: 107

the is2 alone isnt what make it great. it is great because:
1) it can be self repaired / accompanied with guards and their abilities
2) it can be defended against tiger if the tiger is winning by ramming a t34
3) it is usually supported by mines because soviets usually float loads of ammo in late game.
4) it can cap points on vet 1, very useful for recaping center in long games when most inf is dead on both sides

elefant is the real only problem this tank has i think.
16 Sep 2013, 23:57 PM
#67
avatar of Endeav

Posts: 170

the is2 alone isnt what make it great. it is great because:
1) it can be self repaired / accompanied with guards and their abilities
2) it can be defended against tiger if the tiger is winning by ramming a t34
3) it is usually supported by mines because soviets usually float loads of ammo in late game.
4) it can cap points on vet 1, very useful for recaping center in long games when most inf is dead on both sides

elefant is the real only problem this tank has i think.


Shock rifle frontline doesn't get guards nor self repair, armored assault doesn't get any elite infantry whatsoever.

Unless you mean team games, in which IS-2 is quite different.
17 Sep 2013, 00:22 AM
#68
avatar of Appleseed

Posts: 622

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2013, 23:57 PMEndeav


Shock rifle frontline doesn't get guards nor self repair, armored assault doesn't get any elite infantry whatsoever.

Unless you mean team games, in which IS-2 is quite different.


i guess he is using Russian Armored Assault Tactics and play 2v2+ not 1v1 to get guards support
18 Sep 2013, 10:15 AM
#69
avatar of panzerjager2

Posts: 168

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Sep 2013, 19:17 PMUGBEAR


near doubled rate of fire and Greater durability, and 40MP/40FU cheaper, that's the problem


IS2 has more armor than Tiger and its anti infantry capability is a billion times better than tiger while being more or less similar in AT so the 40mp/40 fuel increase is actually more than balanced.

Just try running a panzer gren squad against an is2 and watch in disbelief when it 1 shots the entire squad. The Tiger can never do that to any soviet squad except snipers.

18 Sep 2013, 13:23 PM
#70
avatar of Ridiculous

Posts: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2013, 17:27 PMNullist
Its working fine.


You know this from your 75 whole games? 1 as the soviets? And none under the current patch?

Play more. Post less.
18 Sep 2013, 13:41 PM
#71
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned


You know this from your 75 whole games? 1 as the soviets? And none under the current patch?

Play more. Post less.


Yes. I do.

One person claiming to have witnessed a 0.2-0.0003% probability occurrence is not a valid balance position.

Whats your ladder page?
18 Sep 2013, 18:14 PM
#72
avatar of Ridiculous

Posts: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Sep 2013, 13:41 PMNullist


Yes. I do.

One person claiming to have witnessed a 0.2-0.0003% probability occurrence is not a valid balance position.

Whats your ladder page?


One person playing 75 games and arguing ANY balance position is not valid.

My ladder position is fairly irrelevant as I’m not the one with nearly 1,200 post to change a game I’ve barely played… But if you must know I’ll post when I get home.
20 Sep 2013, 03:39 AM
#73
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954



IS2 has more armor than Tiger and its anti infantry capability is a billion times better than tiger while being more or less similar in AT so the 40mp/40 fuel increase is actually more than balanced.

Just try running a panzer gren squad against an is2 and watch in disbelief when it 1 shots the entire squad. The Tiger can never do that to any soviet squad except snipers.



25 armor greater than Tiger that means JS-2 got (325-300)/325=7.6% better armor than the tiger, while Tiger maintains (1280-960)/960=33.33%, and if you convert the Health point to armor value(armor served as not being penetrated, and both armor value are greater than the max penetration in the game)

TIGER HAS EQUIVALENTLY 960HP 300*1.3=390 Armor vs JS-2 960HP 325 ARMOR

who is superior in terms of durability?

And JS-2 is not the only one overpriced, both for T-34/85 and BrownBAR, Panther may need change to 520MP/140FU, but in terms of cost-effectiveness, Panther surpass any soviet tank
20 Sep 2013, 04:16 AM
#74
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Sep 2013, 03:39 AMUGBEAR



And JS-2 is not the only one overpriced, both for T-34/85 and BrownBAR, Panther may need change to 520MP/140FU, but in terms of cost-effectiveness, Panther surpass any soviet tank



what the hell is a brownbar? brumm =/= brown. i dont know why you keep insisting on saying the is2 should be equal with the tiger. they have different roles. tiger is better vs armor. is2 is better vs inf. build su85s if you want to kill armor.
20 Sep 2013, 04:24 AM
#75
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Sep 2013, 04:16 AMwooof



what the hell is a brownbar? brumm =/= brown. i dont know why you keep insisting on saying the is2 should be equal with the tiger. they have different roles. tiger is better vs armor. is2 is better vs inf. build su85s if you want to kill armor.


Build a Tiger is you wang to kill JS-2, build a Tiger if you want to deal with SU-85, build a Tiger is't not bad for AI, build a Tiger, it's Cheaper.

Your logic: Stop complaining about tank which is 40MP/40FU more expensive than a Tiger, and stands no chance fight a Tiger, and can barely handle a Panther which is half of the price of it.
Just because this end game unit and the most expensive heavy tank has more AI? Reminds me the old German fanboi story of "T-34/76 is fine for it can kill infantry......."
20 Sep 2013, 05:01 AM
#76
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Sep 2013, 04:24 AMUGBEAR


Build a Tiger is you wang to kill JS-2, build a Tiger if you want to deal with SU-85, build a Tiger is't not bad for AI, build a Tiger, it's Cheaper.

Your logic: Stop complaining about tank which is 40MP/40FU more expensive than a Tiger, and stands no chance fight a Tiger, and can barely handle a Panther which is half of the price of it.
Just because this end game unit and the most expensive heavy tank has more AI? Reminds me the old German fanboi story of "T-34/76 is fine for it can kill infantry......."


is2 has 5 aoe and 2.86 distance scatter. brummbar has 5 aoe and 1 distance scatter. notice anything similar? want to know why theyre similar? its because the is2 is for killing infantry. now lets look at tank destroyers. su85 has 1 aoe and 7.5 distance scatter. elefant has .5 aoe and 10 distance scatter. notice the much smaller aoe and much bigger scatter. thats because tank destroyers have very different roles. stop using an is2 to kill tanks.

using your flawed argument, brummbar is a heavy tank thats more expensive than the su85. why does it lose to the su85? if you want to argue that the is2 needs a new role, thats a whole different story. arguing it should beat a tiger based on cost is pointless.
20 Sep 2013, 07:46 AM
#77
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Sep 2013, 05:01 AMwooof


is2 has 5 aoe and 2.86 distance scatter. brummbar has 5 aoe and 1 distance scatter. notice anything similar? want to know why theyre similar? its because the is2 is for killing infantry. now lets look at tank destroyers. su85 has 1 aoe and 7.5 distance scatter. elefant has .5 aoe and 10 distance scatter. notice the much smaller aoe and much bigger scatter. thats because tank destroyers have very different roles. stop using an is2 to kill tanks.

using your flawed argument, brummbar is a heavy tank thats more expensive than the su85. why does it lose to the su85? if you want to argue that the is2 needs a new role, thats a whole different story. arguing it should beat a tiger based on cost is pointless.


STOP USING JS-2 TO KILL TANKS? STOP USING A MOST EXPENSIVE HEAVY TANK TO KILL TANKS?

Arguing a most expensive heavy-tank SHOULD loss to another cheaper heavy tank, or even a tank which cost half of its fuel is pointless.

AI ability in a late game warfare compensates little how it does in terms of AT role!

STOP USING "IT CAN KILL INFANTRY IT'S FINE" ON A MOST EXPENSIVE HEAVY TANK IN GAME

20 Sep 2013, 08:02 AM
#78
avatar of Sorban

Posts: 36

The Question is what other option have sowjet to handle the normal german blitzkrieg tank spam,...Su85 ist to easy flanked and can't do a shit against blitzkrieg Tanks.
The ISU can't and the IS2 isn't good at tanks. So, what the hell,...especially since AT Grenades simply deflect and you can't slow the tanks all time. If Elephant enter the field,..it is,...well,..done!
I really think the germans are a bit stronger in lategame.
I hoped the new IS2 will fix it. But as an anti AT-option it is still not the solution.
20 Sep 2013, 09:17 AM
#79
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
Ugbear seems to still be having trouble understanding that IS2 is not meant as primarily AT.

Getting so mad that its posted in caps and bold.
20 Sep 2013, 09:41 AM
#80
avatar of link0

Posts: 337

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Sep 2013, 07:46 AMUGBEAR


STOP USING JS-2 TO KILL TANKS? STOP USING A MOST EXPENSIVE HEAVY TANK TO KILL TANKS?

Arguing a most expensive heavy-tank SHOULD loss to another cheaper heavy tank, or even a tank which cost half of its fuel is pointless.

AI ability in a late game warfare compensates little how it does in terms of AT role!

STOP USING "IT CAN KILL INFANTRY IT'S FINE" ON A MOST EXPENSIVE HEAVY TANK IN GAME



This is a poor argument. A unit's cost-effectiveness is based on both it's AI and AT abilities.

For example: a brumbar is about as expensive as a Panther, but is only good against infantry. The IS-2 is basically a Brumbar and a Panther combined with higher armor and much higher cost.

I don't have an opinion on whether the new IS-2 is cost-effective or not yet, but that was not a convincing argument.
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