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MG42 Post Patch

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OZtheWiZARD
12 Sep 2013, 11:11 AM
#21
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Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 10:32 AMNullist

[...] BUT

I also strongly feel this dispsrity should not be understated. There should be, to me, logically, a concrete and apparent advantage vested in Ost teams, to compensate for that integral survial difference.
To me, it means Ost support teams should, in one form or another, outperform Sov support teams.

Do you see what I mean and how I rationalise that?

Is that really such an outrageous, unrealistic, biased or stupid position for me to put forward?


To answer highlighted question:

And they still do just that.

MG42 still performs better than Maxim.

German Mortar is still more effective than Soviet one, due to the rate of fire.

PaK still performs better than ZiS in general.
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wayward516
12 Sep 2013, 11:47 AM
#22
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Posts: 229

As a Soviet player, I'm glad of the change. It feels like it's opened up the early game a lot since I'm now able to destroy or push off MG42s with a couple of Conscript squads, instead of being forced to design my entire early game around countering that one unit. Though, seeing some of the reasoning in this thread, I can see how German players would be frustrated by the relative weakness of the unit after the patch.

However, most of what I'm seeing in my games, and the implication I'm getting from posts in this thread is that German players are still expecting a single MG42 to hold areas against Soviet squads. They still seem quite effective when supporting other German squads.

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 07:44 AMZtormi
I've seen squads slipping through the firing arc when there are a lot of targets but I don't consider it really that bad thing.


My least favorite thing about the MG42 before was that it could suppress like, 4 infantry squads being sent against it. It seems better to me now in that regard.
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H_Stickeye
12 Sep 2013, 11:52 AM
#23
avatar of H_Stickeye

Posts: 79

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 09:58 AMNullist


And yet another guy who completely ignores, overlooks and conveniently forgets that MG42s are only 4/6.

A seriously sorry and unfortunate, yet constantly recurring omission.

Generally made by the same guys who falsely and repeatedly insist that Grens vs Cons is not equal.


It doesn't lend credence to your argument when you make assumptions about other players. Anyway, time for German players to whinge. I get it.
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Nullist
12 Sep 2013, 12:10 PM
#24
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Posts: 2425

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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 11:52 AMH_Stickeye


It doesn't lend credence to your argument when you make assumptions about other players. Anyway, time for German players to whinge. I get it.


I didnt make any assumption.
He completely ignored the survival differential in his post.

And yws, it is time for Ost to whinge, like Sov (and especially you) did before this patch.
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Cardboard Tank
12 Sep 2013, 12:15 PM
#25
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

Okay, three times in the last game:

- Shock troopers run into my MG42 frontally.
- Aren´t pinned after three bursts, only suppressed.
- throw a grenade and/ or kill the MG42 with small arms fire frontally.

This is too much. I know the thing needed a nerf, but if hostile troops can run around after two bursts and aren´t even suppressed, that´s ridiculous. The blob can run around unharmed. Just swarm the 42. I call this overnerfed, two bursts should suppress, three should pin.
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TimeKilla
12 Sep 2013, 12:18 PM
#26
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Posts: 60

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 09:03 AMOZtheWiZARD
How about you stop using it the way you've used it before the patch?
I see this a lot in the recent games.
MG42 shouldn't lead the attack anymore nor should it be a stand alone defense point/ unit.
Move it behind your Grenadiers line and use as a support weapon it was always supposed to be and you will be all right.


+1

Adapt and overcome dont be a big baby about it.
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Ztormi
12 Sep 2013, 12:18 PM
#27
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Posts: 249

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 12:15 PMCardboard Tank
Okay, three times in the last game:

- Shock troopers run into my MG42 frontally.
- Aren´t pinned after three bursts, only suppressed.
- throw a grenade and/ or kill the MG42 with small arms fire frontally.

This is too much. I know the thing needed a nerf, but if hostile troops can run around after two bursts and aren´t even suppressed, that´s ridiculous. The blob can run around unharmed. Just swarm the 42. I call this overnerfed, two bursts should suppress, three should pin.


Can you post the replay? Just curious.
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tuvok
12 Sep 2013, 12:22 PM
#28
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Posts: 786

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 12:15 PMCardboard Tank

- Shock troopers run into my MG42 frontally.
- Aren´t pinned after three bursts, only suppressed.
- throw a grenade and/ or kill the MG42 with small arms fire frontally.

wow, a 440mp unit kills a 240mp mg unit with no spotter, what a big deal.
guess what, it's what a 240mp unit (grens) have always done to another 240mp unit (maxim)
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Porygon
12 Sep 2013, 12:33 PM
#29
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Posts: 2779

sigh, the game is really patched by a bunch of idiots
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Cardboard Tank
12 Sep 2013, 12:33 PM
#30
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Posts: 978

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 12:22 PMtuvok

wow, a 440mp unit kills a 240mp mg unit with no spotter, what a big deal.
guess what, it's what a 240mp unit (grens) have always done to another 240mp unit (maxim)
Ah, I get it. The hard counter to infantry isn´t supposed to hard counter infantry. The definition of hard counter is that you beat a unit for cost (aka 240mp beat 440 which aren´t used skillfully).
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tuvok
12 Sep 2013, 12:38 PM
#31
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 12:33 PMCardboard Tank
Ah, I get it. The hard counter to infantry isn´t supposed to hard counter infantry. The definition of hard counter is that you beat a unit for cost (aka 240mp beat 440 which aren´t used skillfully).

It's supposed to hard counter infantry when used the right way, having unsupported mg isn't skillful either.
Also, retreating is an option, I know germans are not used to it but it's there on the screen.
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Strummingbird
12 Sep 2013, 12:42 PM
#32
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 12:18 PMZtormi


Can you post the replay? Just curious.


I know you didn't ask me, but I'll post a replay too.

http://www.coh2.org/replays/7964/kv-8-rush

It isn't exactly top-tier play- more mediocre than anything. My MG42 does good work, though you won't see a lot of flanking- this guy's strategy was to wait it out for the KV8. He had some shocks, and made some incursions into my space with a T70, the abovementioned shocks, and conscripts. They were suppressed with just a little effort. I kept the MG42 back, and spotted for it with Grenadiers, and it worked out for me.

If I had just another Grenadier, I would have certainly been pushed off the map by the marauding Shocks.

Naturally this is just anecdotal evidence, but the only way to resolve OP/not OP debates is in the field of battle, is it not?

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Sorban
12 Sep 2013, 12:54 PM
#33
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Posts: 36

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 08:08 AMOmega_Warrior

Will you stop posting the same thing in every thread. This is about suppression not endurance.

Every thread I've gone to lately you try to start the same topic and fill up a whole page arguing. It's COH.org not Nullest.org.


+1
just bored of him and his stats that compare only one unit with another. Go Nullist, just play the game!
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wayward516
12 Sep 2013, 12:56 PM
#34
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Posts: 229

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 12:33 PMCardboard Tank
Ah, I get it. The hard counter to infantry isn´t supposed to hard counter infantry. The definition of hard counter is that you beat a unit for cost (aka 240mp beat 440 which aren´t used skillfully).


Did he have any Shocks bulletins? They *do* have a -10% suppression bulletin that might account for what you saw.

But I'm gonna go ahead and agree with other posters on this thread: unsupported MG42s shouldn't be able to just lock down sections of the map more or less uncontested. At least pairing the MG with a Gren squad would almost assuredly have turned that encounter around IMHO.
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alexshiro
12 Sep 2013, 12:57 PM
#35
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Posts: 62

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 09:03 AMOZtheWiZARD
How about you stop using it the way you've used it before the patch?
I see this a lot in the recent games.
MG42 shouldn't lead the attack anymore nor should it be a stand alone defense point/ unit.
Move it behind your Grenadiers line and use as a support weapon it was always supposed to be and you will be all right.


First post I agree with Oz. I actually have stopped using it like before patch, going from MG gren gren to gren gren mg build order, and I'd say it works pretty well when it's far enough behind a lmg gren squad, HMG supresses things that stop to fight the grens and LMG mows down units that move to overwhelm the HMG. Mind you, I've only played 2 games in which I got pretty lucky so far and am "nazi fanboi" so I'll probably switch to complaining about it in a few more games.
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Aradan
12 Sep 2013, 13:00 PM
#36
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

HMG is support weapon and you must support them as HMG support you. Fire range is far more longer then sight of HMG. On front you must have granadiers for sight.
OMG. Stop whimper and start play.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
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walkingbass
12 Sep 2013, 13:53 PM
#37
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Posts: 25

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 13:00 PMAradan
HMG is support weapon and you must support them as HMG support you. Fire range is far more longer then sight of HMG. On front you must have granadiers for sight.
OMG. Stop whimper and start play.


Agree all the line.

Exactly the same way Soviets will get used to rely less on clown cars and develop new strategies, Germans will learn how to use MG42 as support weapon, just like the good ol' days.

Complaining about balance issues has become a sort of RTS pornography, lately :)
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pewpewforyou
12 Sep 2013, 14:30 PM
#38
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Posts: 101

After playing pretty extensively last night, I can say that this is the most fun I've ever had playing CoH2. I didn't feel forced to build a clown car. I could actually *gasp* build other things and skillfully use conscripts. For everyone complaining about how a MG42 can't stand alone against multiple squads of conscripts or shock troops, here's a thought... IT SHOULDN'T. Pre-patch Maxims got rocked by multiple grenadiers or PGs, even blowing them up from the front. A 2x MG42 start SHOULD NOT be effective. Your MG should be supported by a grenadier or scout car or halftrack or whatever.

I don't get the reasoning of some people here. Your "I win" button is gone. Deal with it and adapt your build order and be happy that the game is no longer a boring snoozefest like it was before.
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Alties
12 Sep 2013, 14:42 PM
#39
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Posts: 49

The fact that people are complaining about the nerf to the mg42 means it was a successful patch. Whether or not it was too much, remains to be seen.
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Cardboard Tank
12 Sep 2013, 14:45 PM
#40
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Posts: 978

It´s still nice decoration. Right now you are better off spending that manpower on Grenadiers only. Haven´t seen that 42 pin even one unit in the last 4 games.
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