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Give me a reason why KV8 is OP?

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12 Sep 2013, 01:19 AM
#321
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1



Do I think KV8 is OP, hell yeah. I hate seeing the damn thing on the field. It gives the biggest noob ability to force me to retreat/hide and forces me to tech/buy units I may not necessary wanted to go for.

Would I like to see KV8 nerfed? Yes, I would. Providing that commander it comes with gets properly balanced with nerfed KV8. Why, nerfed? for reasons I wrote ^ there.

Do I think KV8 makes commander, it comes with, OP? No, I don't. So far, other then pissing me off, I haven't noticed that I win or lose more games as direct result of KV8 being OP. In greater context of ultimately wining or losing the game, I haven't noticed that I lose 60%+ of games when I face Kv8 commander .

This to me, makes perfect sense. I simply can live with KV8, despite not liking to see it face me...


well is2 and shock troops got a buff and cost reduction this patch. so one kv8 commander is now much better.
12 Sep 2013, 01:29 AM
#322
avatar of Death's Head

Posts: 440

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2013, 21:01 PMShazz
There's really nothing to argue one way or another. It consistently gibs entire squads regardless of vet in the blink of an eye.

That's it - end of story.

It doesn't matter if it costs 4000 MP and 8000 fuel. It doesn't matter if it comes out at the 45 minute mark. It doesn't matter if it's 12CP.

This is Company of Heroes, where unit preservation and veterancy and combined arms are key. Anything that does what the KV8 does, with small exceptions for lucky artillery strikes, completely breaks that aspect of the game.


You have the final word my friend. Case closed.
12 Sep 2013, 01:38 AM
#323
avatar of BabaRoga

Posts: 829

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 01:19 AMwooof


well is2 and shock troops got a buff and cost reduction this patch. so one kv8 commander is now much better.


My reasoning may have been nullified by last patch, I haven't actually played new patch. As I said earlier in thread, if patching and balancing other units transforms Kv8 commanders into OP commanders.

I will be the first one to cry foul play....

I have no ground to base my opinion on, at this moment.
Just guessing here, but I can very well see Shocks cost decrease and HMG nerf swing the balance well into Soviet KV8 commander hands. IS2, I don't think will have as much effect on overall impact of KV8 on the game, tho.
12 Sep 2013, 02:02 AM
#324
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
BabaRoga, stop it already.

That "I admit its OP, but thats ok, cos its on a shit doctrine" crap doesn't fly.
12 Sep 2013, 02:02 AM
#325
avatar of JohanSchwarz

Posts: 409

Been playing a lot of Shock/KV-8 Commanders since the patch; Shocks are much more effective and viable now with their reduced reinforcement cost and makes the commander much more worth it. KV-8 coupled with SU-85 is as potent as ever and very effective with T2/T4 thanks to the new Maxim and MG42 nerf. It really warrants a nerf in the next patch because it's very hard to stop this build once it gets to late game.
12 Sep 2013, 02:05 AM
#326
avatar of BabaRoga

Posts: 829

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 02:02 AMNullist
BabaRoga, stop it already.

That "I admit its OP, but thats ok, cos its on a shit doctrine" crap doesn't fly.


I didn't admit anything. I stated that was OP. In Vacuum
12 Sep 2013, 02:11 AM
#327
avatar of BabaRoga

Posts: 829

Been playing a lot of Shock/KV-8 Commanders since the patch; Shocks are much more effective and viable now with their reduced reinforcement cost and makes the commander much more worth it. KV-8 coupled with SU-85 is as potent as ever and very effective with T2/T4 thanks to the new Maxim and MG42 nerf. It really warrants a nerf in the next patch because it's very hard to stop this build once it gets to late game.


That makes absolute sense. You were right with your prediction that Relic would nerf German HMG and probably decrease cost / buff Shocks, thus making KV8 problematic OP unit.

I haven't actually played the game with/vs KV8 since the patch. But in all possibility, KV8 would break the balance of the game now.
12 Sep 2013, 02:35 AM
#328
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
Its OP.

Nerf it.

Do I have to start pulling up quotations again where even the most hardcore mouthfoaming sov fanbois admit, time and time again, literally, that it is OP?

Nerf it. Its OP. /Thread.
12 Sep 2013, 02:41 AM
#329
avatar of BabaRoga

Posts: 829

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 02:35 AMNullist
Its OP.

Nerf it.

Do I have to start pulling up quotations again where even the most hardcore mouthfoaming sov fanbois admit, time and time again, literally, that it is OP?

Nerf it. Its OP. /Thread.

Please don't, you are not doing yourself any favors by arguing something that no one is arguing, over and over again.

Better thing would be to consider rest of the valid arguments people have presented with those 'admitted' statements

12 Sep 2013, 03:30 AM
#330
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
Nerf it.

Even its most aperaging defenders admit readily that it is OP.

Nothing more needs saying.
12 Sep 2013, 06:32 AM
#331
avatar of Turtle

Posts: 401

At this point, even being new to these forums, I think Nullist is a bit of a troll at how much he just repeats the same things just to further a dead argument.

The thing is, I definitely feel for anyone playing Germans dealing with flame weapons against their tiny squads. I played Germans early after release and during beta, it sucks to have your small squads get wiped out, and especially so when they are still killed even though you're doing the right kind of positioning and retreating.

There was a whole round of nerfs and balance changes to the M3 just to lower how effective it was at bringing flame weapons forward.

Any Soviet player can tell you how much a pain the flame half-track is, despite having some ability to counter it. And Nullist here probably doesn't have much experience playing on the Soviet side to be making such statements.

But, the KV-8 may be more a symptom of the problem, rather than the problem itself. As I already described. Nerfing this doctrinal unit is not the answer. Changing how flamethrowers work, especially against retreating units, may be a better option.
12 Sep 2013, 06:46 AM
#332
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
So despite his personal barbs at me, turtle also agrees KV8s retreat flame is broken.

Hilarious. Everyone agrees its broken, despite the bullshit directed at my person.
12 Sep 2013, 07:04 AM
#333
avatar of LeMazarin

Posts: 88

KV8 is OP, I think there is no discussion on it. But its not the only unit that causes an ugly gameplay that needs to be looked at: T70 (killing retreating squad), HT flamer (too early), 222 upgun, soviet sniper, Scoutcar garisson, Houses cover, some soviet arty one or 2 shotting pak43, etc....
12 Sep 2013, 07:48 AM
#334
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
FHT was deservedly nerfed to bring its retreat killing inline.
M3 was laterally nerfed with the unit garrison attrition, to account for its retreat potential.
Its time the same was done to KV8.

Since there seem to be coding complexities with changing retreat specific flame dmg,
Relic sidestepped it with other nerfs on these vehicles. Same should be done for KV8.

If retreat specific dmg mechanics are too difficult to implement, there are other alternstives to achieve the same resukt, as was done for FHT and M3.

KV8 stats are still at campaign levels. I strongly believe this is simply an innocent oversight. FHT flame also was at campaign levels before its nerf, so there is precedent for this.
12 Sep 2013, 19:34 PM
#335
avatar of JohanSchwarz

Posts: 409

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2013, 07:48 AMNullist
FHT was deservedly nerfed to bring its retreat killing inline.
M3 was laterally nerfed with the unit garrison attrition, to account for its retreat potential.
Its time the same was done to KV8.

Since there seem to be coding complexities with changing retreat specific flame dmg,
Relic sidestepped it with other nerfs on these vehicles. Same should be done for KV8.

If retreat specific dmg mechanics are too difficult to implement, there are other alternstives to achieve the same resukt, as was done for FHT and M3.

KV8 stats are still at campaign levels. I strongly believe this is simply an innocent oversight. FHT flame also was at campaign levels before its nerf, so there is precedent for this.



I find it hilarious how poorly coded many aspects of this game are...
12 Sep 2013, 20:36 PM
#336
avatar of ☭NoobElite☭

Posts: 72

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2013, 12:45 PMNullist
Frankly the attitudes that "KV8 is fine, L2P" in this thread are just making me mad.

I'm discontinuing discussion in this thread with people who have no interest in objective balance discussion.

Bye.
13 Sep 2013, 07:26 AM
#337
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

I retreat my statement.
After last game I understand what you guys mean when saying that your units were obliterated by KV-8. Something have to be done, as I am sure that wasn't intentional design decision.
I sustain my opinion regarding countering it and trying to fight it with Panzer Grenadiers though.
13 Sep 2013, 13:32 PM
#338
avatar of panzerjager2

Posts: 168

I retreat my statement.
After last game I understand what you guys mean when saying that your units were obliterated by KV-8. Something have to be done, as I am sure that wasn't intentional design decision.
I sustain my opinion regarding countering it and trying to fight it with Panzer Grenadiers though.


Trying to fight a KV8 with panzergrenadiers ? LOL ... funniest statement ever
13 Sep 2013, 13:36 PM
#339
avatar of JohanSchwarz

Posts: 409

I retreat my statement.
After last game I understand what you guys mean when saying that your units were obliterated by KV-8. Something have to be done, as I am sure that wasn't intentional design decision.
I sustain my opinion regarding countering it and trying to fight it with Panzer Grenadiers though.


A bigger deal needs to be made of this - it is becoming abundantly clear that the devs are overlooking the issue, unless they plan on releasing another patch relatively soon addressing heavy tank stats.

Frankly, as the meta of this patch develops and KV-8 commanders becomes more popular due to Shock buff and MG42 nerf granting much more viability to T2/T4 builds, this is just going to spiral out of control.
13 Sep 2013, 14:32 PM
#340
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063



A bigger deal needs to be made of this - it is becoming abundantly clear that the devs are overlooking the issue, unless they plan on releasing another patch relatively soon addressing heavy tank stats.

Frankly, as the meta of this patch develops and KV-8 commanders becomes more popular due to Shock buff and MG42 nerf granting much more viability to T2/T4 builds, this is just going to spiral out of control.


Funny how shock troops moved from OP in closed beta (with 360mp and fire superiority) to borderline useless in release with 480mp cost and FHT + MG than viable again with FHT + MG nerf and pp actually use the KV-8 since closed beta.
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