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russian armor

Your worst losses.

25 Sep 2017, 15:10 PM
#21
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



The reason Armor company can replace "top tier tanks" is because the US top tier is absolute trash, unlike axis counterparts. And it's only the m10s that are great, the Dozer is wicked unreliable.

Call-in meta is a problem on both sides, only a very biased player would suggest otherwise. Mechanized Assault was one of the biggest call-in offenders before Stug-E nerf.


Ehm....NO

UNLESS the best ai medium with cromwell armor, 120 average pen and pintle for only 110 fuel and the best kiting tank destroyer in game, with turret and 0.75 moving accuracy, with 220 pen AND pen rounds ability and 200 damage for 125 fuel is bad, somehow....

Call ins are just ten times more cost efficient and goes with well known bullshittery like m10 crush.

Bulldozer is what brumbar can become only with skilled target ground.

Mechanized assult didn't prevent ost players from needing dedicated TD, it was litterally stug E being OP, not a call in issue :loco:
25 Sep 2017, 15:27 PM
#22
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4



And it's not like 90% of call ins are allies.

Like "shit i couldn't even think about a balanced build order and i fucked up, here let me call in sherman/m10/bulldozer as instant counter.l so i can also nullify any hard fought fuel advantage with tech dodging.

:banana:


There is no call-in sherman....
25 Sep 2017, 15:33 PM
#23
avatar of aomsinzana

Posts: 284 | Subs: 1

M4C sherman Keepo.
25 Sep 2017, 15:36 PM
#24
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Sep 2017, 15:27 PMTobis

There is no call-in sherman....


Sure...

Lend















Lease
25 Sep 2017, 15:44 PM
#25
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

RIP. Thought you were talking about USF.

Anyways, I don't know how you can complain about the m10/bulldozer to skip teching and ignore the Cmd Panther/Ostwind. The ostwind even comes in a not shitty commander with other useful things. The call-in meta is bad on all sides.
25 Sep 2017, 15:56 PM
#26
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Sep 2017, 15:44 PMTobis
RIP. Thought you were talking about USF.

Anyways, I don't know how you can complain about the m10/bulldozer to skip teching and ignore the Cmd Panther/Ostwind. The ostwind even comes in a not shitty commander with other useful things. The call-in meta is bad on all sides.


Because engies with demo and smg are bad.
There is not a single thing bad in armored company (lol radio silence).

Ostwind won't keep you from setting a tier 3 and get proper at vehicles.
Command panther is worse than normal panther and cost more because of an aura bonus it won't be useful without tier 3, and obers stg won't be used without tier 3 building.

Armored seems EXACTLY made to skip teching, it's self sufficient both in ai and at, have demos to complement both roles, off map.
M10 are used in their full potential, unlike command panther which waste part of fuel due to the non used aura bonus, and anyway you can get only one of those while m10 can be massed.

Command panther is a cost inefficient panic call in that comes in a doctrines which has as second main selling point an upgrade for top tier unit.
Armored company doesn't punish you in any way for skipping teching.

Cost efficiency of m10 doesn't help.
The problem isn't relying on a specific call in as counter to something, is not needing to tech as you use extensively such units.
25 Sep 2017, 16:38 PM
#27
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

There is not a single thing bad in armored company.


25 Sep 2017, 16:56 PM
#28
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660





And even there...a situational ability not necessary shit.
Get m20, get RE, replace RE with vehicles crews, get paratrooper thompson for the crew, 18.56 near dps each one for a total of 4 thompson litterally copypaste of para
At vet 3 they go from 1 RA to 0.7 RA.

All for 200 mp and 90 muni, more efficient than assault engineers.

25 Sep 2017, 16:58 PM
#29
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



And even there...a situational ability not necessary shit.
Get m20, get RE, replace RE with vehicles crews, get paratrooper thompson for the crew, 18.56 near dps each one for a total of 4 thompson litterally copypaste of para
At vet 3 they go from 1 RA to 0.7 RA.

All for 200 mp and 90 muni.



And 35mp reinforcement cost. No thanks. I´m playing a Manpower starved faction after all.
25 Sep 2017, 17:00 PM
#30
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



And 35mp reinforcement cost. No thanks. I´m playing a Manpower starved faction after all.


30mp

Basically same mp per model of sturmpioneers, which happens to be outgunned by those thompsons.

18+ dps at close range per model over panzergrens (!!!) 15.7 dps..

You want them at 20 mp per model, i mean your BASICALLY FREE squad sturm squad ?

:loco:

Lel usf is mp starved faction sure, and ukf/ost lol

Usf wouldn't see a mp shortage even if it started suiciding rifles.

But why even talking, you don't know reinforcement cost, you probably never used it because "it's just baaad cuz other says so"

It's just bad because usf ass design of double bars dominates both in performances and cost efficiency....
25 Sep 2017, 18:07 PM
#31
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

I used it some times. It never worked for me they only bleed mp

Only occasion when I've found it useful was to rush pak with Stuart, flank it and let crew to finish the job
25 Sep 2017, 19:16 PM
#32
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1



And even there...a situational ability not necessary shit.
Get m20, get RE, replace RE with vehicles crews, get paratrooper thompson for the crew, 18.56 near dps each one for a total of 4 thompson litterally copypaste of para
At vet 3 they go from 1 RA to 0.7 RA.

All for 200 mp and 90 muni, more efficient than assault engineers.



You can't do that because the M20 crew comes with a Bazooka, that locks the Thompson Upgrade.
25 Sep 2017, 19:25 PM
#33
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



You can't do that because the M20 crew comes with a Bazooka, that locks the Thompson Upgrade.


Are you there ? i didn't say i do it with specifically m20.
I said it works like that NORMALLY with m20, where you need a single zook to get a double at, and you can replace those with RE. (Why would you ever keep a zook wasted on a vehicle, and risk when it dies to give the enemy the weapon [it drops right next to the vehicle because lelic]?).
You can do same with any vehicle crew and get thompson rather than zooks.
Vehicles crew with thompson eventually vet faster i think (not sure how much) that by doing damage in vehicles eventually.

The only disadvantage is that eventually zooks/thompson vehicle crews doesn't get 5th man for some reason :mellow:


25 Sep 2017, 19:32 PM
#34
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

I used it some times. It never worked for me they only bleed mp

Only occasion when I've found it useful was to rush pak with Stuart, flank it and let crew to finish the job


There are several applications, only issue is starting bad RA, which gets irrelevant as the unit is used as flanking unit to get weapon crews, or catch retreating units with their good dps, or with smoke.
They are situational indeed, but not "bad" because of that.
25 Sep 2017, 19:54 PM
#35
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



There are several applications, only issue is starting bad RA, which gets irrelevant as the unit is used as flanking unit to get weapon crews, or catch retreating units with their good dps, or with smoke.
They are situational indeed, but not "bad" because of that.




but they fall into a same category as radio silencio or scavenge
25 Sep 2017, 20:08 PM
#36
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660





but they fall into a same category as radio silencio or scavenge


Radio silence does nothing but conceal your units in a map nobody ever uses but imperial dane when casting.
Situational, indeed, not a useless muni sink.

Scarvenge is simply good with everything useful, i have it among my three doctrines like i have heavy cav in usf and mobile defense in ukf, but it can give you any at power at all.
The problem would be if scarvenge had a stug g call in for example.
25 Sep 2017, 20:10 PM
#37
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



Radio silence does nothing but conceal your units in a map nobody ever uses but imperial dane when casting.
Situational, indeed, not a useless muni sink.

Scarvenge is simply good with everything useful, i have it among my three doctrines like i have heavy cav in usf and mobile defense in ukf, but it can give you any at power at all.
The problem would be if scarvenge had a stug g call in for example.


I meants the thorough salvage ability. My bad :oops:

Anyway, I think we´ve agreed on everything, laughed a bit on my meme and not it´s time to go back to topic :)
25 Sep 2017, 20:48 PM
#38
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



I meants the thorough salvage ability. My bad :oops:

Anyway, I think we´ve agreed on everything, laughed a bit on my meme and not it´s time to go back to topic :)


Yeah nice meme XDXDXD
25 Sep 2017, 23:53 PM
#39
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



UNLESS the best ai medium with cromwell armor, 120 average pen and pintle for only 110 fuel and the best kiting tank destroyer in game, with turret and 0.75 moving accuracy, with 220 pen AND pen rounds ability and 200 damage for 125 fuel is bad, somehow....


The Jackson is wicked unreliable. Look at the changes it was getting before the patch was scrapped to "unforseen circumstances". Far to unforgiving of a unit for how reliant the US are on it (unless you go armor). The sherman is great, but when you compare US final tier to the rest in the game it is clearly the worst.

I'm not even denying how big a problem Armor Company is. But call-in abuse is in no way a one-sided issue. And there is no argument to defend how god awful of an ability thompson crews is, US is the most muni-hungry faction in the game and its not at all worth it to drop that on that crew.
26 Sep 2017, 05:56 AM
#40
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2



Maybe it's worth noting that only allies have call ins that can effectively dodge teching ?

Still need to find the match where ost relied on puma/command pnz/stug E whole match and didn't get a stug.

Armored company call in and m4 sherman can EFFECTIVELY replace top tier tanks.

That's the big problem here, not call in, but call ins that can avoid teching.

Quite a difference isn't it ?

Like i said, only axis call in that can eventually let players skip teching is command panther, but okw player can call only one, and won't benefit other armor with aura.so you basically get a worse panther than normal roster with useless bonus that won't benefit anything (except puma).

Protip: that's why modders decided for a non teching fuel penalties for such call ins before relic saved such crap :thumbsup:

Protip: saying protip makes you seem conceited/condescending

If that's how youre defining callin meta, then sure. However, that definition of callin meta is...irrelevant to the discussion honestly.

Even with your definition though, relying on a tiger callin is debatably callin meta (though not too meta). Spec ops and scavenge are full on call in meta. Sure, by your definition, ostwinds technically arent callin meta because ostwinds dont and arent supposed to replace any of the okw t4 vehicles, but theyre more effective than teching t4.

Spec ops and scavenge are by far the best and most meta okw commanders. Both involve dodging t4 (in spec ops' case, severely delaying it usually to the point that it never ends up being built) and using callin vehicles.
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