russian armor

How to close game?

20 Mar 2017, 21:31 PM
avatar of August1996

Posts: 160

Hello, so I come again with another replay, this time with trying to close the game. I had it in the bag the first 20 min, then it started going downhill once CmD Panther shows up. Lost a lot of tanks trying to kill that tank with 1 shot left to die. Ended up having vet 5 Cmd Panther with ubermen running around.

Why did I throw that game? :banana:

20 Mar 2017, 22:03 PM
avatar of ShadowLinkX37

Posts: 1265

Will take a look at this. Thoughts posted shortly. Excited to see this match on a personal level too :D
21 Mar 2017, 00:22 AM
avatar of ShadowLinkX37

Posts: 1265

Lets get some basic points out of the way 1st.

USF is naturally bad on Langreskaya. The reasons behind this are:
  • Long ranged map, USF backbone infantry are stronger at mid-close range.
  • Fairly open with limited cover
  • Very difficult to hold a triple cap and therefore creates long games, USF lategame requires large micro when it relies on the jackson tank destroyer.

Things to improve on/things requested:

Retreats: You seem to retreat very early when fighting infantry engagements. I'm not sure if it's because you're just mass retreating or don't believe you can win the fight. If you're just mass retreating try utilizing control groups if you don't already. It'll help you control individualy infantry squads better and make fast micro decisions.

Grenades: I saw a lot of grenades thrown farther behind the squad than they should have been thrown. I believe you're trying to anticipate a dodge backwards and therefore he walks into the grenade. However your opponet wasn't the strongest at dodging and so if you realize this mid match, adjust your grenades to on top of the squad instead since dodges are less likely. If he begins to dodge more switch back. Also you should almost always throw grenades directly onto team weapons since most of them won't be able to pack up and move before the grenade detonates. If he preemptivly packs up throw accordingly.

Weapon racks: Seemed to rather sluggish on upgrading your infantry with weapons, and for a large portion of the game only had 1 BAR/zook per squad. Most if not all squads have 2 open slots before upgrades and can pickup weapons accordingly. So you should be grabbing double BARs for your rifles ASAP, and double zooks for your captain, RE and major when they're required. However since you decided to go calliope commander and only had 1 BAR per rifle squad at the time of selection you could've opted to go for the M1919 for the last slot. It would have limited the larger portion of DPS from the BAR, but it would still be a nice tradeup on such a long range map.

Early game MG play: You had your 50cal and had it resting on the mid VP watching your right flank while your infantry capped his right side cutoff. You should reverse these roles. Have your infantry escort your MG up to the cutoff and setup on his cutoff. Then use your infantry to protect it against flanks. If you believe you can rotate the MG without being rushed then turn it on the flanks to aid your infantry. The 50cal sets/packs up fairly quickly so moving it shouldn't be a problem.

Calliope: Almost always used it at max range which means it has massive scatter. Don't be to afraid with them since they're on the sherman chasis and are very hard to kill. Closer range means less scatter which means more kills if you can aim it right.

Midgame: You had a very difficult time dealing with his 3 MG34s. Tried to use smoke and flank etc but many times failed. If you can't seem to break an entrenchment grab indirect fire to dislodge it. USF 81mm mortar is broken in the current patch and will destroy any entrenchment. If you don't want to be an ass grab the pack howitzer. Less effective but still good enough.

Lategame: This is where your continuous repitition of throwing your vetted infantry into the meatgrinder lost you the game. All he had was a rakatten, 3 MGs, a command panther and maybe a volk and a couple sturms. Continuously though you threw your men into the mid VP to be suppressed and pinned and bled till eventual wipes. If you cannot break through mid, go to the right since it was ignored for the last 30 minutes of the game after his schwer HQ setup. There was a large window where you had a calliope, jackson, and a sherman against his single command panther. This is where you could have moved your forces right to destroy his schwer HQ. Losing the schwer HQ as OKW is game losing. It is near impossible to come back since it's so expensive. Smoke the schwer and attack ground with zooks if you want even more damage, just punish players who setup flak bases far forward. After this window, it only became harder to win the game as a panzer 4 came out and the command panther began getting large vet. That is another reason you shouldn't run your infantry into a meatgrinder. It gives him a lot more vet than you get.

Jacksons: Jacksons vet 1 ability HVAP rounds gives bonus pen and bonus damage. Most of your jacksons didn't survive to vet 1 except 1, however the ability was not used. Should use it against high armor targets. If you're floating heavy munitions use it whenever you can since it grants bonus damage. I believe its 80 bonus damage raising the total damage to 240 but don't quote me on that. Jacksons outrange ALL OKW tanks except JP4s and JTs. This is where jackson micro is high, you need to keep your jacksons outside of the 50 range of the panther and KT range but inside the 60 jackson range. It's a small gap but doable. This gap lessens with the command panthers vet 4 bonus of +5 range to affected units.

Dealing with the OKW god trio: The KT, the command panther, and the panzer 4. At this point, you need to REALLY outskill your opponet, because there is just no diving that combo. You dive, you get coordinated fire placed on you and you can kiss even a pershing goodbye. Your opponet didn't even use the OP coordinated fire ability which is good for you. Dealing with this combo though primarily you have to use the max range jacksons to continuously chip and never get hit. It it very difficult to do. Another good way to do it is to try and look for a pickoff. A great way to setup a pickoff in these long drawn out games is to build an M20 and sneak a couple anti vehicle mines on the field without ever revealing the M20 if you can. If a vehicle hits the mine it will be immobilized. Perfect targets for long range jacksons.

Overall: You kept the pressure on early which is good as USF, but the map not in your favor didn't help. Make sure you spend your munitions when you can, just save for an AT nade. Use indirect to dislodge entrenchments, and do your best to not overstep with jacksons. They're to fragile currently. Use control groups to strengthen your micro and reaction speed.

Hope this helped. If you have any further questions, comments or concerns do not hesitate to ask.
21 Mar 2017, 02:04 AM
avatar of August1996

Posts: 160

Yeah, I should have just throw it on his squads once I saw that they're not dodging, tbh most of my opponents dodged them so that's why I threw them further back.

About the Flak assault, I was thinking about it as well during the match, but seeing as the Cmd Panther is on the field I was afraid it might be pushed off or worse, lose my tanks as well. What would you do if you know that the Panther is on the field and tanks are needed to destroy the Flak HQ?

Seeing as I finished the game with 400-74 VP standing yeah, it was pretty damn long with only 2 VP to hold, lead him to get his late game toys. Once I saw his tank trio, I'm like "Yup, this is it then."

Curious, what maps do you veto as USF? I have La Gleize, Summer Semiosky, Crossing in the Woods, Bombarded Refinery, Road to Kharkov, Minsk Pocket, Halbe. Mostly because I had bad exp with these maps.

Thx for the review.
21 Mar 2017, 02:05 AM
avatar of August1996

Posts: 160

Maybe I should change Crossing for Westwall, the pathfinding for tanks there are absolutely terribad.
21 Mar 2017, 03:03 AM
avatar of ShadowLinkX37

Posts: 1265

Personally I don't play USF much but I usually just veto horrid disadvantage maps as well as ones I don't like. Langreskaya is on my list for USF as major disadvantage though. Halbe and crossing would be on there as well. Your veto list looks pretty solid, unfortunatly there's not enough vetoes to get rid of all the maps we dislike. If you have difficulty or are fearful of the command panther and need to assualt his schwer, setup a siege position and use AT guns and zook attack ground through smoke. Command panthers are strong, but it won't be diving a sherman and jackson alone with an AT gun nearby with rifles. You really shouldn't fear the command panther that much when you have overwhleming numbers and a large infantry advantage. The command panther is strong in 1v1 tank fights because of the coordinated fire but a good player will still back away from rifles from fear of snares. So as long as you have your well rounded composition setup by his schwer sieging it down, you should be good and be able to make good counterplay or effective trades since he'll be forced to react.
21 Mar 2017, 05:40 AM
avatar of __deleted__

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