Faction Rankings

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All "normal sized" AT guns have the same damage (160).
6Pounder is a clone of the pak40 but because DLC faction, it has a 50% bonus accuracy against vehicles. Some say it's there due to no snares, but i call bs. Still pak40 is god due to TWP.

Trenches are unhittable because for "reasons", they have a size of 2 (?) vs +20 of other simil structures.

I rate this thread a 79% based on reasons.

Hmm i'll argue that's it's more of a 5/7 due to entertaining value.

All "normal sized" AT guns have the same damage (160).
6Pounder is a clone of the pak40 but because DLC faction, it has a 50% bonus accuracy against vehicles. Some say it's there due to no snares, but i call bs. Still pak40 is god due to TWP.

It´s not BS. You cannot allow to not hit luchs or 222 with pounder. If you had it well positioned and you would miss, resulting into gg for you because enemy will rush your down with 222/luchs, then it will be bad design and will force you to get AC. Always.

Also TwP is one of best and most broken abilities in game for AT gun, that´s why I would trade pounder for pak any day.

I think that british faction as whole needs to be balanced around having snares, otherwise it will always be niche mid game without AC and OP lategame

All "normal sized" AT guns have the same damage (160).
6Pounder is a clone of the pak40 but because DLC faction, it has a 50% bonus accuracy against vehicles. Some say it's there due to no snares, but i call bs. Still pak40 is god due to TWP.

Trenches are unhittable because for "reasons", they have a size of 2 (?) vs +20 of other simil structures.



Hmm i'll argue that's it's more of a 5/7 due to entertaining value.

Huh, and yeah I know it's a clone of the Pak 40, hell it even says so in it's description in the mod tools I think, I'm not 100% sure, but I am 100% sure the Vicker's description says it's an MG34 clone.

And yeah I agree, however Brits do have a doctrinal snare squad in form of the Boys AT Rifle IS squad from the Special Weapons Regiment, and Pak is godlike.

I'd trade any support weapon teams for Wehrmacht support weapon teams any day of the week really, they're just superior to everything.

And yeah I know about the trenches, but still, giving the raketen as an example in this case is stupid, it hits the ground most of the time anyway lol.

Trenches don't really stand up to in-direct fire as I've found out tho.

And I hate their new models, I wish Relic still used the old British slit trench models from CoH, it just does not make sense for something that's obvious ABOVE ground to give whoever is shooting at it such a hard time.

And yes I do believe the British trench model is dug deeper and has less of it above the ground than the new CoH 2 trench model.

It´s not BS. You cannot allow to not hit luchs or 222 with pounder. If you had it well positioned and you would miss, resulting into gg for you because enemy will rush your down with 222/luchs, then it will be bad design and will force you to get AC. Always.

You could make it "good" against light vehicles/tanks not against everything. Also light performance is been normalised and giving tracking to piats will make less affordable to boom rush british lines. There's sniper and AT boys and it's not lacking in mines but yeah.

Huh, and yeah I know it's a clone of the Pak 40, hell it even says so in it's description in the mod tools I think, I'm not 100% sure, but I am 100% sure the Vicker's description says it's an MG34 clone.

Not sure what to say to this. You were doubting if they had the same damage and talking about caliber. I just told you it was a clone stat wise besides the usage of target table.
About the Vickers and description, you should had to be gullible to take description for granted. Vicker is a early game oriented MG which deals more damage than the MG42 but drops in performance during the midgame when there is yellow cover around (gl suppressing anything). It has pros and cons.

I'd trade any support weapon teams for Wehrmacht support weapon teams any day of the week really, just superior to everything.

Cause they are based on the original design of 4 vs 6 models. And there are several times on which opposing support weapons are superior when fighting their own faction. Take for example the USF AT gun. While not amazing against Axis, it's great against paper tanks of SU/USF. Maxim against conscript/Rifles.

trenches snip

I'm not talking about design, but balance wise. After you push out UK it takes an unrealistic number of time to kill it with paks, tanks or schrecks cause they will miss it as it has practically the same size as infantry models.
Take a look at the bunker and the UK trench model. Not sure why one is 26 and the other 2.

You could make it "good" against light vehicles/tanks not against everything. Also light performance is been normalised and giving tracking to piats will make less affordable to boom rush british lines. There's sniper and AT boys and it's not lacking in mines but yeah.

That´s what accurracy makes them - good against light vehicles. Everything bigger than p4 will be hit even by blind, thank to it´s high box

You could make it "good" against light vehicles/tanks not against everything. Also light performance is been normalised and giving tracking to piats will make less affordable to boom rush british lines. There's sniper and AT boys and it's not lacking in mines but yeah.


Not sure what to say to this. You were doubting if they had the same damage and talking about caliber. I just told you it was a clone stat wise besides the usage of target table.
About the Vickers and description, you should had to be gullible to take description for granted. Vicker is a early game oriented MG which deals more damage than the MG42 but drops in performance during the midgame when there is yellow cover around (gl suppressing anything). It has pros and cons.


Cause they are based on the original design of 4 vs 6 models. And there are several times on which opposing support weapons are superior when fighting their own faction. Take for example the USF AT gun. While not amazing against Axis, it's great against paper tanks of SU/USF. Maxim against conscript/Rifles.



I'm not talking about design, but balance wise. After you push out UK it takes an unrealistic number of time to kill it with paks, tanks or schrecks cause they will miss it as it has practically the same size as infantry models.
Take a look at the bunker and the UK trench model. Not sure why one is 26 and the other 2.

Nah I mean, they were "cloned" from those units, not that they're 1:1 stat wise, I never said that.

However I was surprised of Pak and 6 pounder having the same damage, as well as every other "normal" AT Gun, and that just doesn't make any sense, they're different caliber guns, they should perform and deal differently and different amounts of damage, at least if you ask me.

As for the support weapons, yeah, I see what you mean, but I still consider the Wehrmacht to have the best support weapons in the game.

Can't say anything more about the trench, I'd just change it's model in order for it to make more sense since it's a hard to hit target, that's all.

But I'm all for changing it stat wise, I'm sick and tired of the 50 manpower always mine British trench anyhow.

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Damage model in the game follows similar values.

For infantry it goes from 2-4-6-8-10-12-16. This is per bullet, so while a bolt action rifle deals 16, a faster firing AR or HMG which does 4 per bullet will be doing more DPS. This is why RNG wise, there are chances that a single volley from a squad might get a kill on a single model. Early on it's relevant (when fighting 1v1 squads) but as the game drags it's less important as multiple damage sources are combined.

On the AT role, MOST sources are set at 160, which is 1/4 of the health of a medium tank (T3476, Sherman, PIV, Cromwell). Then you have "soft" AT at 80-100-120 (small AT gun, Puma, Schreck, Zook, Piat, Su76 and snares) and hard AT at 200-240-280-320. (Jackson, KT/ISU, Firefly vet3, JT/Ele). REALLY low are set at 16-20-40 (PTRS, Flak HT, 222, Luch).
The difference is set mostly on penetration vs armor, RoF and range.
This is how you balance and understand most tanks engagements. HOW MANY penetration shots you can survive. If you have a PIV fighting a Jackson, it will survive the same amount of shots if it was fighting a T34-85 (4) (200*3 = 600 HP. You still need an extra shot to finish it off).

Something as small as increasing 2 HP (cof sniper cof), makes a unit "OP" or not, cause it can survive things which would generally kill (grenade, mortar shell or rocket) or survive an extra shot. This is also the reason people use the auto repair on the T70 (they can survive an extra pak shot even if the ability only heals for 1 HP).

Again, this damage and HP thresholds are what makes or breaks a unit. Stug/M10 are really effective because, while they have "lower" HP than mediums (560HP vs 640HP) it's basically the same when fighting (most) tanks and AT gun walls. They all die to 4x160 shots.

That´s what accurracy makes them - good against light vehicles. Everything bigger than p4 will be hit even by blind, thank to it´s high box

Mediums are able to "dodge" shots at max range, more so if they use blitz. The big and slow cats are the ones on which are guaranteed a hit (unless they use combat/blitz).
Note that this is accuracy hits not counting "scatter lucky" shots.

Also, what you were describing before (222/P2) is exactly what happens when USF/SU rush clowncar early on against OKW and your rak misses. Although after WBP it's gonna be easier to fend off with the SwS unlocking faust.

If you ask me what i would like to have it would be:
OKW:
-Remove flak base bunkers.
-SP can get both sweeper and schreck
-SwS unlocks faust
---but it doesn't snare but it's cheaper, and slightly more range.
---or STG locks out faust
-Rak doesn't hit as much ground nor misses as much, specially when shooting out of cammo.

UKF:
-Sniper gets crit shot at vet 0 again. Against light vehicles, it's a temporary engine debuff not permanent.
-Grenade also unlocks AT nade on IS. It has a smaller range although (15).

Damage model in the game follows similar values.

For infantry it goes from 2-4-6-8-10-12-16. This is per bullet, so while a bolt action rifle deals 16, a faster firing AR or HMG which does 4 per bullet will be doing more DPS. This is why RNG wise, there are chances that a single volley from a squad might get a kill on a single model. Early on it's relevant (when fighting 1v1 squads) but as the game drags it's less important as multiple damage sources are combined.

On the AT role, MOST sources are set at 160, which is 1/4 of the health of a medium tank (T3476, Sherman, PIV, Cromwell). Then you have "soft" AT at 80-100-120 (small AT gun, Puma, Schreck, Zook, Piat, Su76 and snares) and hard AT at 200-240-280-320. (Jackson, KT/ISU, Firefly vet3, JT/Ele). REALLY low are set at 16-20-40 (PTRS, Flak HT, 222, Luch).
The difference is set mostly on penetration vs armor, RoF and range.
This is how you balance and understand most tanks engagements. HOW MANY penetration shots you can survive. If you have a PIV fighting a Jackson, it will survive the same amount of shots if it was fighting a T34-85 (4) (200*3 = 600 HP. You still need an extra shot to finish it off).

Something as small as increasing 2 HP (cof sniper cof), makes a unit "OP" or not, cause it can survive things which would generally kill (grenade, mortar shell or rocket) or survive an extra shot. This is also the reason people use the auto repair on the T70 (they can survive an extra pak shot even if the ability only heals for 1 HP).

Again, this damage and HP thresholds are what makes or breaks a unit. Stug/M10 are really effective because, while they have "lower" HP than mediums (560HP vs 640HP) it's basically the same when fighting (most) tanks and AT gun walls. They all die to 4x160 shots.

God damn, they ought to out you on the balance team , explained it like a professor. Nice.