I hit lv16 in 3v3 randoms and decided to see what it would be like just doing 4v4. I didn't know if the automatcher would consider me a 16 for any game mode or just 3v3. Also, I'm playing USA, which I think gets beat down pretty fast in 4v4. I quickly feel like I am facing off against 4 people pretty much alone. The ass whoopings are fierce. My opponents hit the right targets of opportunity, they dodge grenades, cap points with 1 squad, and generally have excellent preservation. My allies are typically the opposite of that. So I know it's considering me a 16 when matching me in 4v4, because it's got me in crazy handicap matches. Sometimes there is another poor soul in the game with me who is competent. In 4v4 randoms I'm struggling to maintain level 6, lmao! Even when the opponent is not skilled, I will find myself pop capped, everything pretty close to max vet, gigantic kill counts, yet still losing. I think that has to do with that axis benefit in 4v4.
Unit balance in 4v4 is typically thought to be impossible. However, team matching can be done better this. I've set the system up for an extreme handicap on myself to see how far it goes, but I've noticed it for years. The system seems to do some kind of addition formula and try to get both teams to be the same number. So a high level person will get matched with several really low players to match another team where each member may be average. Even though the numbers are equal, the game is not fair skill-wise. The average players quickly overwhelm the noobs. The good player/s cannot get the noobs to perform better, even with guidance. It just doesn't work. Their reactions are slow and placement is thoughtless.
A better way to match teams is to try and get all players within a close skill range. For example, 1 team might have a level 16, level 14, and 2 level 10's. The other team has a level 17, 2 level 12's, and a level 9. It's not perfectly even, but compared to the way it is now where I might get paired up with 3 level 4's to take on a team of 4 level 10's, it's much better odds. The players on the lower levels lack the basics of the game and perhaps use 4v4 as a crutch for inexperience. I think that is fine, but they should be grouped together. A team of 4 level 4's vs a team 2 level 3's a level 5 and a level 6.
Team automatch can be made to do better!
Horrible Team Matchups
22 Jan 2017, 00:42 AM
#1
Posts: 1158
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
22 Jan 2017, 00:57 AM
#2
10 
Posts: 871
There are not enough people in the queue to get properly balanced games often. I would get maybe only 1/5 games that have players within 200 places of me. Its OK if you have some high and some not as long as its similar for both teams, though sadly it isn't.
Without more players the only other way would be to increase wait times, which are often 10+ minutes for me in 3's and 4's if not many players near my rank are on and even then I do not have faith in the match maker.
That being said you are currently ranked around 4000 on the leaderboard as US in 4v4. Once you grind up the leaderboard it will help quite a bit.
Teams can also cause problems. If you get a team who have not played 10 games together yet, they will not have a rank and so could get matched vs bad or good players, which might be why it seems the opponents are good.
Without more players the only other way would be to increase wait times, which are often 10+ minutes for me in 3's and 4's if not many players near my rank are on and even then I do not have faith in the match maker.
That being said you are currently ranked around 4000 on the leaderboard as US in 4v4. Once you grind up the leaderboard it will help quite a bit.
Teams can also cause problems. If you get a team who have not played 10 games together yet, they will not have a rank and so could get matched vs bad or good players, which might be why it seems the opponents are good.
22 Jan 2017, 01:49 AM
#3
Posts: 1158
I'm sure it's not because of the low player count. I get matched up immediately. I got to rank 197 in 3v3 random and now I struggle at 4000+ in 4v4. I'm a level 3 in 4v4 random struggling! This is hilarious! Grind a bit more, like maybe to 1000 games? I'm at 600+ now.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
22 Jan 2017, 09:31 AM
#4
Posts: 2260 | Subs: 1
the best solution for this is
start playing 1vs1
start playing 1vs1
22 Jan 2017, 09:33 AM
#5
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
the best solution for this is
start playing 1vs1
But then you face shitty new maps without enough vetos :|
22 Jan 2017, 14:38 PM
#6
Posts: 2742
90% of 4v4s:
AFK vs AI.
AFK vs AI.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
22 Jan 2017, 17:25 PM
#7
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
Until you get a truly high level in 3v3 and 4v4 you are going to suffer since your level won't protect you from the real bad matchups. Once you get pretty high it won't be able to find someone truly unable to play competitively in your range.
The solution is to keep grinding if you want to move up, or just figure its not a huge deal to have a high rank in 3v3 and 4v4 random because of the variability in fair fights. Still some good games at higher levels however.
The solution is to keep grinding if you want to move up, or just figure its not a huge deal to have a high rank in 3v3 and 4v4 random because of the variability in fair fights. Still some good games at higher levels however.
22 Jan 2017, 17:31 PM
#8
Posts: 1158
Well I don't think that is quite right, I've been up to level 13 in 4v4, I never paid attention to my ladder rank, but typically the higher up I get, the more unfair the matches become. I see it happen to others too. The automatcher seems to like making these teams of a single strong player among a group of noobs, once rank is high. My level and rank is going backwards, I'm getting curious to see how low it will go.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
22 Jan 2017, 17:38 PM
#9
Posts: 493
I noticed that when I go fully random it takes more time to find the game then if I play in AT. It should mean something to the thread, isn't it? 
mastered mode: 4v3 
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
22 Jan 2017, 18:10 PM
#10
Posts: 1158
It's a good note, but I don't think it's relevant here. Neither is suggestions of doing 1v1. I play some games joined up with friends and I have no issues with that.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
3 Feb 2017, 02:43 AM
#11
Posts: 1158
A little update, I let my rank in 3v3 decay from 16 to 14 and the insane handicap games eased up. So now instead of struggling af at level 1, I am now at level 10 with more competent teamates, consistently. I really don't believe it's lack of players, it's a shit algorithm in team matching.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
3 Feb 2017, 09:09 AM
#14
Posts: 1158
Smurfing in 4v4 randumbs
Best solution is to play AT
That's the second instance of avoidance. The problem is with automatcher. The solution is not play 1v1. It's not play AT. Those are different solutions. I could just as easily not load up the game and call that a solution. The matcher is broken for 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
3 Feb 2017, 09:37 AM
#15
Posts: 2066
the best solution for this is
start playing 1vs1
1v1 is curently the worst game mode of them all.
Kappa
3 Feb 2017, 10:47 AM
#16
Posts: 25
and how its possible that im getting all the time in 2v2random matchs vs teams ?
3 Feb 2017, 11:45 AM
#17
Posts: 5441 | Subs: 35
A) To play randoms sucks --> Get friends. Make Thread here to find mates, if you don't have them allready.
B) About the matchmaking. When you search longer then 5 min--> You should restart your search. If you don't you will get after 10-11 min defently a game. But this game can / will be worse. Because long search time means, big skillarea.
C) Matchmakingsystem: Yes, For example: You are 100, your randoms mates are 500, 600. Means, that your enemies can be a 200-300 team ez. Because the matchmaking thinks, that you as rank 100, should be able to play 1vs2 or 1vs 1,5 on this skill lv. (What you acutally really can maybe! If not, your rank should be lower then.)
But yes i know, it sucks at all. Thats why i stopped playing randoms.
D) When you top 50 for example, your games are normally more balanced. You will get same mate often and same enemies, if there are playing at this time. When you are > rank 200 , you can get everything. Sucks, but thats it.
B) About the matchmaking. When you search longer then 5 min--> You should restart your search. If you don't you will get after 10-11 min defently a game. But this game can / will be worse. Because long search time means, big skillarea.
C) Matchmakingsystem: Yes, For example: You are 100, your randoms mates are 500, 600. Means, that your enemies can be a 200-300 team ez. Because the matchmaking thinks, that you as rank 100, should be able to play 1vs2 or 1vs 1,5 on this skill lv. (What you acutally really can maybe! If not, your rank should be lower then.)
But yes i know, it sucks at all. Thats why i stopped playing randoms.
D) When you top 50 for example, your games are normally more balanced. You will get same mate often and same enemies, if there are playing at this time. When you are > rank 200 , you can get everything. Sucks, but thats it.
3 Feb 2017, 12:37 PM
#18
Posts: 2260 | Subs: 1
1v1 is curently the worst game mode of them all.
and how so?
3 Feb 2017, 12:54 PM
#19
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
Flame post invissed. Another one invissed for quoting said post.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
3 Feb 2017, 14:59 PM
#20
Posts: 1158
I do play AT when possible, but once again, this thread has nothing to do with AT, just the horrible matching logic that results in extreme handicap games. I also explained earlier that I'm not waiting 10 min for games. It's matching fast. It likes these matches.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
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