Login

russian armor

Why does UKF lack a snare for infantry?

2 Jul 2016, 19:37 PM
#1
avatar of ImSkemo

Posts: 444

How do you reliably punish overextending tanks ( with sweeper support ofcourse) .

I know you can use tank hunters but tank hunters cant get Brens.. So if you go tank hunters you need 2 snipers to support them or they will loose late game LMG wars..

So sniper critical shot sort of works as snare vs light vehicles BUT it turrents locks meduim nd heavy tanks so u waste 30 munition and u cant score a kill coz he backs away..

AEC thread buster again got broken after last fix.. it even misses when your stationary..

Last one would be a 4 sec Stun with Tulip rockets..which are pretty reliable if you land them and guarntees a kill shot if supported by AT guns.. but thats 100 muntions..

all other factions have infatry snares available to them UKF doesnt.. dont tell me to plant mines i do and use snieprs to prioritize sweepers on pushes but still A tank rush always is in favour axis as he can get away unpunished if he overextends..
2 Jul 2016, 19:55 PM
#2
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794

With AEC and the hard hitting 6Pounder you don't need any snares. Just finish it off whatever it is.
2 Jul 2016, 20:15 PM
#3
avatar of ImSkemo

Posts: 444

With AEC and the hard hitting 6Pounder you don't need any snares. Just finish it off whatever it is.


but command panzer buffed panther is pretty beefy from ostheer even 2 6 pounders cant penetrate the buffed panther consistently.. and so does King tiger..

I can deter them but cant punish them if they rush and trade units.. there armor will get away with no engine damage while mine if survie would have suffered engine damage..

I stopped getting cromwells instead wait it out for COmet.. i see high lvl players going multiple cromewells its pretty look at but hard to pull off and to me seems very inefficent.. comet would have done it better had they waited 4 more mins










2 Jul 2016, 20:22 PM
#4
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794

Ah so you are talking about late game. On open maps a FF is a most, supported by 1 6Ps. Just build it earlier so it gains some vet for late game.


On urban maps cromwel blobing is your best bet, with some piats supprt. Yes it is hard to pull off, but very rewarding and fun.
2 Jul 2016, 20:48 PM
#5
avatar of ImSkemo

Posts: 444


On open maps a FF is a most, supported by 1 6Ps. Just build it earlier so it gains some vet for late game.


FF= 17pounder?? that thing costs a lot of MP building earlier than required I dont think is good idea.. and most OKW players go with Jagers doctrine they get that stupid barrage that recharges in 20 secs or so and if they time it well ur 17 pounder is kaput..

17 pounder is risky and ive only built once when i heard a KT engine.. Tulip stun infornt of a surprize 17 pounder is one dead KT



On urban maps cromwel blobing is your best bet, with some piats supprt. Yes it is hard to pull off, but very rewarding and fun.


May be balance team decided that since Brits can get piats giving them snares would be bad idea.. but riflemen have both and a stupid recieved accurracy bonus on vet :P im stuck with tank hunter commander for my play style..
3 Jul 2016, 05:40 AM
#6
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 948



FF= 17pounder??



FF= FireFly.
3 Jul 2016, 06:12 AM
#7
avatar of Monkey_Man

Posts: 6

How do you reliably punish overextending tanks ( with sweeper support ofcourse) .

I know you can use tank hunters but tank hunters cant get Brens.. So if you go tank hunters you need 2 snipers to support them or they will loose late game LMG wars..

So sniper critical shot sort of works as snare vs light vehicles BUT it turrents locks meduim nd heavy tanks so u waste 30 munition and u cant score a kill coz he backs away..

AEC thread buster again got broken after last fix.. it even misses when your stationary..

Last one would be a 4 sec Stun with Tulip rockets..which are pretty reliable if you land them and guarntees a kill shot if supported by AT guns.. but thats 100 muntions..

all other factions have infatry snares available to them UKF doesnt.. dont tell me to plant mines i do and use snieprs to prioritize sweepers on pushes but still A tank rush always is in favour axis as he can get away unpunished if he overextends..


Tell why OKW dosen't have smoke, halftracks, non-doctrinal flamethorwers (usf and ukf too) and a relaiable AT(raketen misses and get one-shoted more than any other at gun. Why dosen't conscripts any non-doctrinal upgrade, every other mainline infantry has upgrades. Why are ukf sappers and usf RE allowed to have sweeper and flamethrower when Pioneers, Strumpioneers and Combat engineers can't?? Why does british emplacement have brace (usf fighting posistion doesn't same with lefh 18 pak 43 and flak 38 emplacement/flak emplacement=base one)The volk faust cost 35 muni(does not have more dmg or range. when every snare in the game cost 25 muni. why does OKW have units objectly better then ostheer counterpart (lefh18, ostwind, pak 43, panther, pz4 etc.) of wich only panther and pz4 have a price increase
3 Jul 2016, 07:54 AM
#8
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

All factions should have core elements and the snare is one of them. Imo UKF should have a non doc snare too.
Relic shot them self's in the foot with the asymmetrical balance when they started to balance the game for competitive reasons (because players asked for it).
Example, the gave OKW a snare, why not the UKF? :loco:
3 Jul 2016, 08:03 AM
#9
avatar of Don'tKnow

Posts: 225 | Subs: 1

All factions should have core elements and the snare is one of them. Imo UKF should a non doc snare to.
Relic shot them self's in the foot with the asymmetrical balance when they started to balance the game for competitive reasons (because players asked for it).
Example, the gave OKW a snare, why not the UKF? :loco:

+1
3 Jul 2016, 08:17 AM
#10
avatar of ImSkemo

Posts: 444



Tell why OKW dosen't have smoke, halftracks, non-doctrinal flamethorwers (usf and ukf too) and a relaiable AT(raketen misses and get one-shoted more than any other at gun. Why dosen't conscripts any non-doctrinal upgrade, every other mainline infantry has upgrades. Why are ukf sappers and usf RE allowed to have sweeper and flamethrower when Pioneers, Strumpioneers and Combat engineers can't?? Why does british emplacement have brace (usf fighting posistion doesn't same with lefh 18 pak 43 and flak 38 emplacement/flak emplacement=base one)The volk faust cost 35 muni(does not have more dmg or range. when every snare in the game cost 25 muni. why does OKW have units objectly better then ostheer counterpart (lefh18, ostwind, pak 43, panther, pz4 etc.) of wich only panther and pz4 have a price increase


like i said in my second post.. its probably coz UKF infantry gets access to piats having snares would tilt balance.. BUt USF has them so there must be some reasoning .. what you listed above doesnt fit into this category as im talking about common things that are in every factions. except OKW smoke thing yeah..
3 Jul 2016, 13:13 PM
#11
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4300 | Subs: 2

from 2v2 perspective, i do not think this is a crippling thing.

the answer to the title is: there cannot be an answer to that title... i mean the whole faction plus the other factions have to be thoroughly looked at to see if this is "justifiable" or not.

and i don't think snare is a "core" element. smaller we keep the "core" element category, more asymmetry which i like :).
3 Jul 2016, 13:16 PM
#12
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

That's exactly why I said okw shouldn't get the faust... now all the mirror lovers are going to ask for snare for ukf... Factions should differ, in fact, the more differences the better.
3 Jul 2016, 13:47 PM
#13
avatar of Rollo

Posts: 738

The Sniper was designed to be UKF's snare

but by double nerfing the sniper (ability is now vet 1+easier to kill) it leaves you with nothing reliable to catch vehicles.

In team games you don't really feel it but in 1vs1 it's a massive hole in your army, OKW used to at least have shreks before they had faust. UKF just have to get by with investing in 6pdr early and lots of mines because if he flanks you with a Luch/222 gg.
3 Jul 2016, 21:53 PM
#14
avatar of ImSkemo

Posts: 444

I finally understand why UKF doesnt need a snare.. I was having trouble with late game tank rushes that went unpunished here is what I found ..

AEC thread buster is the key. I recorded my tests in below video, you can kill KT very quickly and very effective..
(Dont move your AEC while usign thread buster and terrain should be even without shot blockers or covers btw your AEC and enemy tank)

firs test i dont use firefly other test i use firefly.. with AEC Sniper Firefly 6 pounder KT gets locked in place for 8 -10 seconds chaining AEC immobilization with firefly tulip stun .. even without the firefly stun the AEC threadbuster is long enough to punish any AXIS careless tank pushes..



4 Jul 2016, 02:57 AM
#15
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063


AEC thread buster is the key. I recorded my tests in below video, you can kill KT very quickly and very effective..
(Dont move your AEC while usign thread buster and terrain should be even without shot blockers or covers btw your AEC and enemy tank)

Seems a lot of trouble to snare a tanks, although this only works against unsupported tank or punish Panther diving, usually keeps your AEC still is asking for a Pak/Raketen or Jpz IV shot in the face. I still prefer my snare to be on my inf.
4 Jul 2016, 12:00 PM
#16
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4300 | Subs: 2

wow. did not know that the ability was that strong.
4 Jul 2016, 12:50 PM
#17
avatar of ImSkemo

Posts: 444

wow. did not know that the ability was that strong.


well AEC missess a lot on move and if there any debri or terrian difference one of the 2 disable shots will miss.. 2 shot is the most important one as thats what immobilizes tank...

probably why its not used a lot... i think its good for punishing tank pushes especially those double ostwin drushes.. since non doctrinal UKF lack snare its very frustrating to watch your entire army to retreat coz your AT gun was facing wrong way.. or ur cromwell got snared.. this should make them think twice.
4 Jul 2016, 13:35 PM
#18
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

As others mentioned, it's because of asymmetrical balance. If UKF had snare (I don't know how that would affect their 1v1 performance), but they would immediately become bleeding-OP in anything above that. Since adding a snare would warrant a Tommy nerf, that would make Brit the mirror of Ostheer.

UKF used to have Vet0 Sniper that fulfilled this role. This must have been completely broken. However, I don't think that many people really cared about that since the terms "Axis" and "light vehicle rush" were mutually exclusive at the time. (sniper snare was moved to Vet1 around the time of OKW 2.0 revamp).

Honestly, if I wanted to negate every single vulnerability that UKF has at the start of the game, I would either:
- Give them snare, or
- Make AEC a copy-paste of the Puma (because that's the role UKF needs the AEC to perform)

Now, regarding AEC tread-busters; it's just insane. It is very possible, but also very challenging to pull it off against the big cats (I can't count the times I've managed to score KT kills because of this). However, I have never, ever, ever, managed to get this ability to work while the AEC is moving. This is a combination of:
- The AEC's atrocious scatter profile (which is great vs infantry, but terrible vs anything on wheels)
- bad moving accuracy
- short range for a vehicle of its class
- Terrible turret traverse speed for the AEC

If you move, while the shots are being lined up, you can almost guarantee that your shot will fall short off the target.

However given the cost/cooldown of the ability, and on a scale from 1 to "Stuka Dive Bomb", I would rate AEC tread-busters as "Pretty High", or "Equal to Stug TWP" on "List of broken risk-reward things that need to be looked at".
4 Jul 2016, 16:07 PM
#19
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4300 | Subs: 2

haha. whenever i used the ability i was always rushing to get the rear armour in fear of not penning... only if id known :)
4 Jul 2016, 16:16 PM
#20
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

haha. whenever i used the ability i was always rushing to get the rear armour in fear of not penning... only if id known :)


The ability has 1000 pen; thus you "only" need it to hit.

It also has 50 range (as opposed to 40 range). However I would never recommend using it at that range (it is too easy for the enemy tank to just run out of range; you will be forced to move, and you will miss).
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest
Diversity Cup Isi vs. Inca

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag shadics ARG.
  • U.S. Forces flag TüMe
  • Ostheer flag The101stAirBorne
  • Ostheer flag Clororaa
uploaded by TüMe

Board Info

267 users are online: 1 member and 266 guests
Crecer13
10 posts in the last 24h
119 posts in the last week
584 posts in the last month
Registered members: 36311
Welcome our newest member, pcloudy0
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM