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Ostheer Versus USF and Its Mortar

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30 Jun 2016, 16:03 PM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

It's reached the point where if I get paired against a USF as Ostheer on a small map I might as well give up at the start. The two main tools I used to use to fight USF, the MG42 and the Sniper, are countered hard. The MG42 gets shelled and the edge the sniper gives the Grenadiers by sniping riflemen is negated by the health damage they take from mortar. Even my mainline infantry seem to be countered by it: Grenadiers like to fight in green cover at long range and the mortar punishes units being static heavily. If the mortar is kept behind the riflemen then I can't flank it either as all my able combat troops are long range until T2's Panzergrenadiers. All of this leads to the Riflemen being able to push me off my key points, especially on small maps.

This snowballs into the mid game: without the ability to defend my side of the map everything collapses: if I can't win on the defence I certainly can't win on the attack. While I usually pull back slightly when Panzergrenadiers hit the field that advantage is lost as soon as the riflemen get their BARs. The mortar essentially prevents me from playing defensively, forcing me to play a mobility game that the USF will win. This puts be so far back that by the time I get my first tank the USF have a superior armoured force. Unless the USF makes some crippling mistakes (blobbing into S-mines) I simply can't win the matchup.

This happens repeatedly: I've dropped from Rank 9 to Rank 7 since the new patch.

I've concluded that I simply don't know how to deal with it.

Therefore my question is this: what works as Ostheer against the current USF, especially if they deploy their mortar? I'm after doctrines, tactics, build orders and army compositions.
30 Jun 2016, 17:19 PM
#2
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Right now mortar is bugged and have range of russian 120mm doctrinal mortar, bigger rate of fire than ostheer pre nerf turbomortar and best scatter value on top of good AOE. Relic did it wrong it was supposed to be high rof but low aoe high scatter mortar to counter builidng static play, not this beast.


Right now I reccomend you either rush 444 backed up with pak and tellers to gain advantage and possibly even kill mortar before stuart or then stick to armored assault commader (that one with assgrens) and call in pgrens in halftrack to kill mortar and then use them as mobile 2 shreck squad and later call in 2 stug e with 2 paks to gain ground and stall game until tiger come.

Or the second option is to wait until relic fix mortar.

You cannot play with mgs or sniper against it because it counters them pretty much as you pointed, so 3 grens 1 mg into fast 444 or pgren halftrack should do the trick, and always reposition mg once it supress riflemen and let your pios and grens to finish them
30 Jun 2016, 18:26 PM
#3
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

30 Jun 2016, 19:07 PM
#4
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

You´re welcome
30 Jun 2016, 19:12 PM
#5
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

2 vs 2 wehr right now only chance is to make sure you and ally are side by side in your initial movements,means you and him go one side and middle.Go mg ,gren,gren,gren.Skip the mortar or sniper until later.You want to send mg to hold up middle and send ur grens to doublteam ur mate's side and hopefully cause some wipes that gives u some breathing space.If u are on ur teams fuel side you ofc have to send everything and ask teammate support.
Due to mortar they build 1 less rifle early and this can allow you to push a bit.Tech up after that and go 222.Lay tellers and lmg.

Have puma commander in layout as emergency light vehicle spam counter.Get a pak and mortar and one more gren or pzgren when necessary.You can then go stugs or t4 for brummbarr and panther even though its shit.Only use panther if u have panzer smoke commander.Mobile defense and fortified armour best choices.

Veto maps- lierneux,dusseldorf,ettelbruck,semoisky and there is one other forgetting.
Also in minsk pocket if u are facing british you will probably lose,so veto that too.USF mortar will wreck you there.And then they will get katyusha or calliope.If u must play get elefant doctrine on that map.
2 Jul 2016, 06:57 AM
#6
avatar of Neo88

Posts: 14

Have you tried to use assault grens and fast tech to tier2? assault grens have the mobility,if you use them carefully you can outgun riflemen, ar least at the start,and you can get your 222 pretty quickly
aaa
2 Jul 2016, 08:05 AM
#7
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486

rank 9 oh is gentlefox. dont lie
2 Jul 2016, 08:15 AM
#8
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 609

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jul 2016, 08:05 AMaaa
rank 9 oh is gentlefox. dont lie


It is obvious he isn't refering to ladder.
2 Jul 2016, 08:39 AM
#9
avatar of strafniki

Posts: 558 | Subs: 1

i can only say that the american mortar is still way too op. wiping 4 man OST squads is just fucking ridiculous. and that on a regular basis. i lost for sure like 7 squads in 3 matches to this OP mortar. usually 4 models... thx lelic
aaa
2 Jul 2016, 08:44 AM
#10
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486

if he gets a mortar for 260 pus inf is 280. Why not just 5-6 grens. If i remember right they vs rifles at max range even unupgraded.
2 Jul 2016, 11:41 AM
#11
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jul 2016, 08:05 AMaaa
rank 9 oh is gentlefox. dont lie


If I were 9th on the Ostheer Leaderboard I would not be asking the forums how to fight mortars and nor would moving from 9 to 7 be a drop. I'm referring to the rank from 1 to 20 it gives you based on overall leaderboard position.
4 Jul 2016, 18:09 PM
#12
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jul 2016, 08:44 AMaaa
if he gets a mortar for 260 pus inf is 280. Why not just 5-6 grens. If i remember right they vs rifles at max range even unupgraded.


Because USF mortar has laser guided shells that insta gib half or 3/4 of your gren squad:snfPeter:
4 Jul 2016, 18:18 PM
#13
avatar of Galgengeiler

Posts: 21

At my level (400-500 currently), assgrens usually can do the job. Don't spam them, just call in 1 or 2 squads. They are perfect in flanking support weapons. If the USF-player fields in the first 3 minutes a mortar, he does not have enough infantry to protect it or he can not get control of the map.
25 Jul 2016, 01:54 AM
#14
avatar of William Christensen

Posts: 401

At my level (400-500 currently), assgrens usually can do the job. Don't spam them, just call in 1 or 2 squads. They are perfect in flanking support weapons. If the USF-player fields in the first 3 minutes a mortar, he does not have enough infantry to protect it or he can not get control of the map.


Not in 2v2 where there will be another dude helps protecting it tho. And if that was a Brit, it basically gg for them since Ostheer just can't survive against those constant laser-guided missiles with their small/low survivability squad.

The idea of adding the mortar for USF was to add variety to their opening and something to counter camping mg, right? Now all I see is duel mortars opening! Now that is some varieties right there :v. Why don't give USF non-doc flamethrower like Ost for Rear, add in the Wc51 and maybe the CE?
13 Oct 2016, 20:51 PM
#15
avatar of gvardia_legiones

Posts: 34

The problem is still here )) usf mortars everywhere )
Any new ideas from pros?
22 Oct 2016, 12:24 PM
#16
avatar of Thistle Bites

Posts: 2

The problem is still here )) usf mortars everywhere )
Any new ideas from pros?


The blitzkrieg doc. and sprint your panzergrenediers in al flanking attack towards the mortars...
14 Mar 2017, 01:46 AM
#17
avatar of mretribution

Posts: 57

Spearhead doctrine used well hard counters usf mortar and gives those blobbing yankees alot to think about!
14 Mar 2017, 06:32 AM
#18
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Spearhead doctrine used well hard counters usf mortar and gives those blobbing yankees alot to think about!


Thank you very much for necroing this thread, you´re da real MVP :clap:
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