OKW Command Panther veterancy is a bit broken

You know the russian mark target is more expensive and worst than the CP mark target right? panther is 50% damage and mark target is 30%.

i think its good asymmetrical balanced. mark target doesnt have a range and it calls in a recon plane. its a tradeoff in my oppinion (not to mention SU doesnt have many muni sinks so the cost doenst affect them that much)

The Command Panther is fine, no need to touch something that's not broken. I'd much rather Relic focus on fixing UKF emplacement meta and just blobbing in general.

The Command Panther is fine, no need to touch something that's not broken. I'd much rather Relic focus on fixing UKF emplacement meta and just blobbing in general.

Plus One

This thing costs as much as a Tiger and suffers the same problems a regular panther does for approximately 50fuel more. On top of that it rarely if ever gets past vet 2.

If it did get changes, maybe up to 12cp, increase mark target to ~50munis, and minor tweaks to the vet bonus percentages. As others have said, this thing is hardly changing games by itself and there are many more pressing things for the balance team to focus on.

lmfao is this a joke? The CP is completely fine.

lmfao is this a joke? The CP is completely fine.

A (theoretical) CP that reaches Vet-5 makes allied infantry outrange enemy infantry. This cannot possibly be "completely fine".

Now, before somebody comments "Oh, is it just about the Vet-5 bonus?", I ask you kindly to read the argumentation on the 1-2 pages of the thread. If you can come up with counterarguments, I would welcome a discussion.

Thanks.

What is the xp requirement for Vet 5? Is it even possible outside of a multiplayer comp stomp?

I've never once seen a CP reach vet5 outside of comp stomp

glorious days of troop training, and even then it was hard

You had to dump liek 200 fuel for it to reach vet 3?

Who cares? it takes like 1 hour to get it to vet 2

I've never once seen a CP reach vet5 outside of comp stomp

I have also already covered this question previously in this thread.

Let's take the following statements as axioms (the statements might not be true, but let's say they are):
- The CP is completely fine at Vet0
- The CP becomes completely broken at Vet5

This implies that there is a particular Veterancy transition that turns the CP from "A bit strong" to "gamebreaking".

I claim that this transition happens somewhere between Vet2 and Vet3. Therefore, we should probably cap CP veterancy at that point.

Now, since I can already predict that your next question is "Wtf are you talking about, I've never even seen a Vet2/Vet3 Command Panther; or a Vet2/Vet3 is still killable.", this question has also been already asked in the thread previously by Zarok47.

Welcome to the thread.

FAQs
Q: It takes ages for the CP to reach VetX, who cares?
A: Why not cap the Veterancy of the Command Panther at VetX so that it doesn't break the game in case it does? In certain gamemode it is very common for the CP to reach Vet2/Vet3

Q: 4v4? Who cares?
A: I'm proposing a small change that will probably not really affect the smaller game modes as much (since achieving Vet2/3 is so difficult to begin with as you claim). This change will have a very big impact on a very popular gamemode that is played by the majority of the players. Is there a fundamental reason to reject the change?

Q: Ok, I see. But every other OKW unit has 5 levels of veterancy.
A: Then spread the available aura/unit stats on those 5 levels of veterancy

Q: But the CP would take ages to reach that level of veterancy?
A: Then give the CP all the stats it is allowed to have at Vet0, and then not let it vet anymore.

You had to dump liek 200 fuel for it to reach vet 3?

worth the yolo

The range and reload buffs are batshit op. High requirements are no argument for OP abilities/units. By that logic we could simply raise the prize of the KingTiger to 500 fuel and give it 100 range (with sight), 480 dmg, 500 pen and the AoE of an ML-20.

The range and reload buffs are batshit op. High requirements are no argument for OP abilities/units. By that logic we could simply raise the prize of the KingTiger to 500 fuel and give it 100 range (with sight), 480 dmg, 500 pen and the AoE of an ML-20.

I don't think logic means what you are implying it does....

It took 5 and a half Churchills to get a CP up to Vet 3, so vet requirement must be circa 8000 xp.

Yes Vet 4 and 5 probably are ridiculously OP but doubt anyone will ever see them in 1v1. Potentially overpowered if you like but not in itself overpowering.

What really pisses me off is that it can be called in so early and without any buildings what so ever. I remember playing a match where I completely wrecked OKW guy early game: destoyed both his medical and flak HQs, and then, a few minutes later he calls command panther in.

Make it builable from Flak HQs.

Its Relic incompitence again. In allied patch prior this they buffed allied stuff to deal better with axis in late game insisting that factions should be equal (read allies should beat axis in all stages).

Now they buff useless OKW early, mid and late game, which is fine, but they removed resourse penalty for no reason at all (why not ajust prices, ffs?) while allowing OKW to remain some mad late game things like jp4 veterancy and cp veterancy and mark target. OKW early game might be weak (however map pressense are not thanks to kubels), but OKW mid and late game now absoulte nuts.

Cp vet might be fine but 35muni old 50% mark target with accuraccy bonus on top of it is beyond broken.

without any buildings what so ever.

Yeah that's kinda the point of that whole thing m8

Ahhh finally a discussion about one of my favourite units. The commando panther.

Now to start to one has to look at all the facts about it.

At vet 0 it is an ordinary okw panther with the bonuses from its vet 0 aura (the ONLY bonus the CP gives itself, 2 CPs give each other their aura but it does NOT stack on units that already have the aura, it simply alternates between the 2 CPs auras depending on which one is nearer i assume)

The vet 0 aura is +20 sight range, +10% speed, +10% ac/de-celeration.

The sight is useful. It can spot for itsself. Its not that much more than useful though as often you use combined tactics in which sight range is already given through other units.

At vet 1 it gets blitz, identical to the normal panther.

At vet 2 it gets +20% accuracy to its aura and +10% armour, +20% health, +10% weapon rotation speed for itsself.

The normal panther gets the same but 40 % weapon rotation speed. So in the end the CP trades in 30 % weapon rotation speed against a 20 % accuracy

At vet 3 the CP gains 10% reload, +10% rotation speed, +10% ac/de-celeration
Opposed to the nornal Panther getting
-30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +30% ac/de-celeration. The CPs aura gains -20% reload. So you trade 20 % reload 10 % rotationspeed and 20% acc amd deexcelleration vs a 20 % reload aura.

At vet 4 the CP gains nothing for itself as well as at vet 5 while the normal panther gets +10% range -25% scatter and at vet 5 +25% accuracy on the move, +11 sight radius vs the aura of +5 range and at vet 5 finaly infantry affected too.


Now remember, the AURA of the CP does not affect the CP, exception beeing the vet 0 aura, what does this mean?

This means that by itsself based on stats the CP is inferior to the normal panther at any vet over vet 2 beeing almost identical at vets below or at that. This also means that a panther and a CP duo at over vet 2 is weaker than a simple double normal panther duo. If you have 3 tanks the setup with the CP is favoured.

Now keep in mind that the CP also has substantialy higher vet requirements than the normal panther whilst doing LESS dps from vet 3 on as it only get 10 % reload vs 30%. As a sidenote, there are also -5% reload bulletins for the Panther whilst the CP just has 5% top speed.

The CP has a saving grace beeing mark target. It is very strong and alows the CP to stay competitive IF spammed. If used with other units it can be extremly potent.

Tldr: The CP is worse than a normal panther by itsself for a higher cost and higher vet requirements. You need approximatly 3 tanks counting CP or 2 tanks benefiting from the aura for the CP to pull ahead of a normal panther.

Mark target is what makes the CP better than a normal panther even though tje above mentioned limitations.

A vet 5 cp is sick! But though I love the CP and play it a lot I have never had one. I would have many old replays of cps in action but due to patches they cant be watched anymore. I do have 1 on youtube though where i get a vet 4.5 cp thanks to some lucky rng, and guess what? We still loose the game.

Also, please take note how long the game is and how little time if it the CP actualy is above vet 3 and how damn lucky i got...

 https://youtu.be/AWQ1pCMdGIE


Seeing as the CP is the commander defining unit i think its role as beeing all together a better panther for higher cost ok. Its by itself quite a lot worse than an ordinary panther for higher cost but it scales with the amount of tanks and it has mark target.

As for 4v4... well... there are many units who scale a lot better in those modes, all rocket artillery for example, or a sturmtiger etc...

And last but not least. The british command vehicle gives the stronger buffs to infantry and tanks from the get go for only 75 min. It does half all the stats from the carrier but if its an aec or carrier who cares. -30 reload, +30 acc -30 rec. Acc.

Ahhh finally a discussion about one of my favourite units. The commando panther.

Now to start to one has to look at all the facts about it.

At vet 0 it is an ordinary okw panther with the bonuses from its vet 0 aura (the ONLY bonus the CP gives itself, 2 CPs give each other their aura but it does NOT stack on units that already have the aura, it simply alternates between the 2 CPs auras depending on which one is nearer i assume)

The vet 0 aura is +20 sight range, +10% speed, +10% ac/de-celeration.

The sight is useful. It can spot for itsself. Its not that much more than useful though as often you use combined tactics in which sight range is already given through other units.

At vet 1 it gets blitz, identical to the normal panther.

At vet 2 it gets +20% accuracy to its aura and +10% armour, +20% health, +10% weapon rotation speed for itsself.

The normal panther gets the same but 40 % weapon rotation speed. So in the end the CP trades in 30 % weapon rotation speed against a 20 % accuracy

At vet 3 the CP gains 10% reload, +10% rotation speed, +10% ac/de-celeration
Opposed to the nornal Panther getting
-30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +30% ac/de-celeration. The CPs aura gains -20% reload. So you trade 20 % reload 10 % rotationspeed and 20% acc amd deexcelleration vs a 20 % reload aura.

At vet 4 the CP gains nothing for itself as well as at vet 5 while the normal panther gets +10% range -25% scatter and at vet 5 +25% accuracy on the move, +11 sight radius vs the aura of +5 range and at vet 5 finaly infantry affected too.


Now remember, the AURA of the CP does not affect the CP, exception beeing the vet 0 aura, what does this mean?

This means that by itsself based on stats the CP is inferior to the normal panther at any vet over vet 2 beeing almost identical at vets below or at that. This also means that a panther and a CP duo at over vet 2 is weaker than a simple double normal panther duo. If you have 3 tanks the setup with the CP is favoured.

Now keep in mind that the CP also has substantialy higher vet requirements than the normal panther whilst doing LESS dps from vet 3 on as it only get 10 % reload vs 30%. As a sidenote, there are also -5% reload bulletins for the Panther whilst the CP just has 5% top speed.

The CP has a saving grace beeing mark target. It is very strong and alows the CP to stay competitive IF spammed. If used with other units it can be extremly potent.

Tldr: The CP is worse than a normal panther by itsself for a higher cost and higher vet requirements. You need approximatly 3 tanks counting CP or 2 tanks benefiting from the aura for the CP to pull ahead of a normal panther.

Mark target is what makes the CP better than a normal panther even though tje above mentioned limitations.

A vet 5 cp is sick! But though I love the CP and play it a lot I have never had one. I would have many old replays of cps in action but due to patches they cant be watched anymore. I do have 1 on youtube though where i get a vet 4.5 cp thanks to some lucky rng, and guess what? We still loose the game.

Also, please take note how long the game is and how little time if it the CP actualy is above vet 3 and how damn lucky i got...

 https://youtu.be/AWQ1pCMdGIE


Seeing as the CP is the commander defining unit i think its role as beeing all together a better panther for higher cost ok. Its by itself quite a lot worse than an ordinary panther for higher cost but it scales with the amount of tanks and it has mark target.

As for 4v4... well... there are many units who scale a lot better in those modes, all rocket artillery for example, or a sturmtiger etc...

And last but not least. The british command vehicle gives the stronger buffs to infantry and tanks from the get go for only 75 min. It does half all the stats from the carrier but if its an aec or carrier who cares. -30 reload, +30 acc -30 rec. Acc.

Good analysis and agree with you after seeing this. I have to say that I have had 2 vet 5 cps in a total of 2 years. Does it get completely broken from that point, o hell yes, hut you are able to kill it most of the times before it reaches those levels. A vet 5 regular panther is many times stronger, except missing the mark twrget