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Remove FRP? yay or nay.

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10 Jan 2016, 19:29 PM
#21
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 18:05 PMd0ggY
I think it shouldn't be a discussion, having a FRP can punish you either as it can reward you.


if you want healthy 20-30 second decrease in retreat time, there is absolutely no risk in all 3v3+ maps and actually competitive 2v2 maps.

if you want 1 minute advantage, there is actual risk.

god damn genius risk v. reward.

10 Jan 2016, 19:37 PM
#22
avatar of poop

Posts: 174

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 18:52 PMJohnnyB


Exactly, and besides, yeah, let's remove all cool features in the game and make all factions the same. Then let's move to the next game because this one will be so dull. :loco:


It's not as much a feature as it is a blatant advantage for the ones that have it. especially on big maps.

10 Jan 2016, 19:40 PM
#23
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 18:05 PMd0ggY
I think it shouldn't be a discussion, having a FRP can punish you either as it can reward you.


OKW player detected
10 Jan 2016, 19:44 PM
#24
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 985 | Subs: 2

I voted yes to remove. But now it does not make sense to put trucks/ambulance near the frontline.

What would be your destination?
10 Jan 2016, 20:02 PM
#25
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3



OKW player detected


PLayercard?
10 Jan 2016, 20:07 PM
#26
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 19:29 PMpigsoup


if you want healthy 20-30 second decrease in retreat time, there is absolutely no risk in all 3v3+ maps and actually competitive 2v2 maps.

if you want 1 minute advantage, there is actual risk.

god damn genius risk v. reward.



SO USF should not have that advantage of major frp because their tanks are so stronk right? or brits that have the to pay 450 mp effectivly for that and are weakest in early game and should then still have long ways through the whole game ? Please guys, please. Okw should not have it because a soviet can punish it easy with katyusha, calliope, or just can get destroyed and then a 650 40 fuel investment is just gone. :< sure let's make everyone retreat to base and wait for the game to be ruined.
10 Jan 2016, 20:11 PM
#27
avatar of Jaedrik

Posts: 446 | Subs: 2

10 Jan 2016, 20:13 PM
#28
avatar of poop

Posts: 174

This would leave:

Soviet:
M5 half track

+meat grinder upgrade

(Doctrinal) forward command post
+heals
+boons
-expensive

----
UKF:

Forward tent thing
+ weapon racks
+cheap
AoE garrison bonus
+no popcap
-can't move

(Doctrinal) re supply half track
+weapon drops



---
USF:

Ambulance
+heals too
---

OKW

Base thingy:
+ free with tech
+ heals
+ good HP?
- can't move

---

Ost:

Bunker
+can be garrisoned by MGs and such
+heals
+cheap
+no popcap
-can't move

Half Track?

-------

I dunno, to me it looks like they are pretty fair across the board, with UKF having a bit of an advantage. As a defending faction.
10 Jan 2016, 20:42 PM
#29
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 19:44 PMcapiqua
I voted yes to remove. But now it does not make sense to put trucks/ambulance near the frontline.

What would be your destination?


ambo can move which makes it use-able. okw truck can get durability buff upgrade then.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 20:07 PMd0ggY


SO USF should not have that advantage of major frp because their tanks are so stronk right? or brits that have the to pay 450 mp effectivly for that and are weakest in early game and should then still have long ways through the whole game ? Please guys, please. Okw should not have it because a soviet can punish it easy with katyusha, calliope, or just can get destroyed and then a 650 40 fuel investment is just gone. :< sure let's make everyone retreat to base and wait for the game to be ruined.


heard of soft retreat? forward REINFORCE point is still a very valuable asset. I'm sorry noob-hard-retreat-back-to-field-in-20-sec seem so appealing to some of you.

and lol. yea, like when katty comes out at 12 min mark, the only target would be OKW FRP put down at 3 minute mark.
10 Jan 2016, 22:05 PM
#30
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 20:07 PMd0ggY


SO USF should not have that advantage of major frp because their tanks are so stronk right? or brits that have the to pay 450 mp effectivly for that and are weakest in early game and should then still have long ways through the whole game ? Please guys, please. Okw should not have it because a soviet can punish it easy with katyusha, calliope, or just can get destroyed and then a 650 40 fuel investment is just gone. :< sure let's make everyone retreat to base and wait for the game to be ruined.


Lelic please give my major AA Gun on top of his Helmet and 1200 HP.

And I agreee with Doggy, All alies must have Calipoe as their regular unit in tier 2 or so so there would be good risk reward of creating simcity somewhere othere than base sector.
10 Jan 2016, 22:25 PM
#31
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3

Totally not going into the points i really stated, you disqualified yourself sir.

And yes Pigsoup, Katy comes later than the forward retreat base. But you as a confirmed allies fanboi should know how punishing that can be, if you just basepin him with maxims and one zis gun takes that hq out, or you can make him bleed more manpower so you have superior infantry very quick. I don't get the fuzz about it, i think all FRP are fine. It's the game, #adapt.

Also i know what a soft retreat is, doing it often enough as ostheer.

Still, you want to take the 1 thing that makes the major viable? You want to punish brits to have a real slow early game already and t h en not be able to put pressure on you anymore? i think without them coh2 would be have as spectacular as it is. ;)
10 Jan 2016, 22:42 PM
#32
avatar of F1sh

Posts: 521

I have a GREAT IDEA

Make it's only a 10% chance that the squad retreats to the FRP.


:brad::brad::brad::brad::brad::brad::brad::brad:
10 Jan 2016, 22:49 PM
#33
avatar of Superhet

Posts: 132

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 07:33 AMRappy
More of a reason to blob would be if there was no FRP. You would retreat the low health squads in the blob and keep the others on the field, feeding them back in to the sort of swarming, breathing blob.

I have seen many Ostheer players play this way. It is a way to compensate for the long walk home. Also why Ostruppen are so popular.


Huh? sorry, what? are you thinking clearly? you argue against your own point.

What you say, retreating low health squads in the blob and feeding them back, is exactly what gets easier and you want to do with a FRP. And you say that we would see more blobs if there were none? you're trolling right? you mean to tell me that if blobs recovered slower, we would see more of them? please explain the logic you used to come to this conclusion.

I can see why someone would think that FRPs can stay. But the actual arguments some of you guys use to explain why is scary.
10 Jan 2016, 22:52 PM
#34
avatar of pugzii

Posts: 513



Huh? sorry, what? are you thinking clearly? you argue against your own point.

What you say, retreating low health squads in the blob and feeding them back, is exactly what gets easier and you want to do with a FRP. And you say that we would see more blobs if there were none? you're trolling right? you mean to tell me that if blobs recovered slower, we would see more of them? please explain the logic you used to come to this conclusion.


Mate the guys literally toxic, hes rank 2000+ and probably a official forum kid, just ignore him like most do
10 Jan 2016, 23:03 PM
#35
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 22:25 PMd0ggY
Totally not going into the points i really stated, you disqualified yourself sir.



lol. ok let us go again then.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 20:07 PMd0ggY


1. SO USF should not have that advantage of major frp because their tanks are so stronk right?

2. or brits that have the to pay 450 mp effectivly for that and are weakest in early game and should then still have long ways through the whole game ? Please guys, please. Okw should not have it because a soviet can punish it easy with katyusha, calliope, or just can get destroyed and then a 650 40 fuel investment is just gone. :< sure let's make everyone retreat to base and wait for the game to be ruined.




i am not talking about just the balance aspect. it is a gameplay problem as well. its just not fun.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 22:25 PMd0ggY
...

1. And yes Pigsoup, Katy comes later than the forward retreat base. But you as a confirmed allies fanboi should know how punishing that can be, if you just basepin him with maxims and one zis gun takes that hq out, or you can make him bleed more manpower so you have superior infantry very quick. I don't get the fuzz about it, i think all FRP are fine. It's the game, #adapt.

2. Also i know what a soft retreat is, doing it often enough as ostheer.

3. Still, you want to take the 1 thing that makes the major viable? You want to punish brits to have a real slow early game already and t h en not be able to put pressure on you anymore? i think without them coh2 would be have as spectacular as it is. ;)


1. maxims and one zis gun? is that how you lose your OKW FRP? please.

2. ok

3. major? haven't you notice how he gives USF non-doc recon ability? single pass might as well because loitering gets shot down after 1 second post 10 min mark in 3v3+.

yes, me and my friends brit without FRP early-mid game, mostly due to need of manpower somewhere else. you should try it. it feels like it is the way the game was meant to be played. hard-retreat should = punished, not oh well, be back in a jiffy.
10 Jan 2016, 23:11 PM
#36
avatar of Superhet

Posts: 132

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2016, 22:52 PMpugzii


Mate the guys literally toxic, hes rank 2000+ and probably a official forum kid, just ignore him like most do


Will do ;)

-------------------------

I don't like FRPs as a concept unless they are behind forms of give-and-take specialisations like doctrines, tech options (not tech "givens" like the OKW truck) like the Major, and big risks like the UKF FRP). Even if every faction had them in their default BO they would be bad for the strategic aspect of the game. Don't really feel a need to detail why since guys like pigsoup are already doing so. And on the USF FRP, I have to add a further point because it is an example of it: they are also fine in the default BO of a faction, if it is balanced around having it.
11 Jan 2016, 06:29 AM
#37
avatar of poop

Posts: 174

Another thing that bothers me about FRP, is that it counters my ability to punish blobs with arty.

They can retreat at the sound of the Katy and be back before its finished its 3rd volley. Same with air strikes, arty, and loitering planes. They can just hit retreat and dodge the thing entirely, wheras with soviet or Ost, if I retreat, I have to lost map control for 3 mins or eat the strike.. It's stupid and imbalanced.

It completely removes the usefulness of so many munition abilities.
11 Jan 2016, 07:11 AM
#38
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

1.Unfair for SU/OST.They have to retreat MGs but take 40s to comeback while the blobs can come back in 20s?This is why HMGs can't stop blobs.One successful assault makes HMGs useless when they're back.
2.It's time to end this "noob-mass retreat-back-in-20-seconds-blobs". Haven't you been boring with this?
11 Jan 2016, 08:42 AM
#39
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

Hello.

I do not see the problem with blobbing nor the fear generated. Someone complaining about a blob surely never saw an explosion in this game. I was part of an interesting thread earlier that involve offensive language so i wont drop a "L2P", but still....

Back to the OP, i voted NO. i see the problem prople are pointing with FRP but they tend to forget what it costs and what it involves.

Usually it cost a squad or two, just to be able to retreat less far. It is an impressive cost. i know what i can do with an extra volk squad.
It can also be easily destroyed with the exception of the meditruck for obvious reasons.
It is a mousetrap, thoses FRP are easily targeted by Offmap strike rsulting in even more deaths.
They promote teamplay which is something that doesnt hurt in this game.

The Noob-mass-retreat is not an issue as you spend a whole squad to be able to do this, it compensate for your lesser force.

Creating urban defenses is Cool™.

Kozo.
11 Jan 2016, 12:56 PM
#40
avatar of maritn

Posts: 28

The bigger the maps are, the more FRPs are a problem and the more SU/OH are in a disadvantage. Please remove them.
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