Login

russian armor

Improving Counter-Play for Fuel Drops

8 Dec 2015, 04:44 AM
#1
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 769 | Subs: 1

I applaud Relic's recent move to add counter-play to mechanics that lacked it. It's a clear goal, and one that is essential to enjoyable competitive gameplay.

However, I do think that some of it could use some further enhancement, namely base fuel drops like in Lend Lease or Soviet Industry.

The Mechanic


Planes deliver the fuel, instead of automatic conversion.

Explanation: The counter-play added here is that the fuel is dropped by plane coming from the longest direction over the map, making it vulnerable to anti-aircraft weapons.

The Problem


Anti-aircraft weapons are hard to counter and don't require gameplay to use.

Explanation: The problem is that anti-aircraft mechanics are one of the game's weakest aspects. There is effectively nothing about it that requires player input. The counter-play is literally build an AA weapon and don't engage it in battle. OKW's abundance of AA weapons makes this especially easy and inevitable in team games.

The effort required by the Allied players to counter these AA weapons, and lack of ways to utilise the ability, means that using the ability is actually more about counter-counter-play, and one that feels heavily unrelated or detached. Bottom line: There's nothing fun involved.

The Solution(s)


Make it more like Supply Drop Zone, where it comes down to micro and not AA.

Explanation: Draw from the supply drop zone ability for inspiration. Whereas fuel drops can only happen in your base, supply drop zone can only happen on an applicable fuel/ammo point. These tend to be in contentious areas of the map by design. This means that there is a deliberate risk that the opponent may be able to use land units to steal that fuel (or ammo). These planes can't be shot down, so the counter-play comes down to the two sides fighting to pick up the fuel first (helped by the drop happening over an extended period of time). Making sure some sort of indication or notification of the drop is made noticeable by the opposing team, and you have well-crafted counter-play.

Because variety is the spice of life, you could potentially combine the two. Instead of limiting the fuel drop to the base, and making the plane direction always the same, allow the player to make the drop elsewhere on the map. This can make the plane direction variable to improve its chances, but at the cost of increasing the risk of the opposing team being able to steal the fuel once it is dropped.

Thoughts?
8 Dec 2015, 04:56 AM
#2
avatar of IIGuderian

Posts: 128

Well for starters, you might wanna consider making a Tl;DR version.
10 Dec 2015, 05:53 AM
#3
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 769 | Subs: 1

Updated to make the key points clearer.
10 Dec 2015, 12:49 PM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

The only problem with fuel drops is OKW getting free AA for normal tech without any additional side costs.

AA counterplay is alright, getting effective AA literally for free with just tech is not.
10 Dec 2015, 13:16 PM
#5
avatar of FichtenMoped
Editor in Chief Badge
Patrion 310

Posts: 4785 | Subs: 3

Removing the AA-capabilities of the Flak-Base is a must to reach the goal. Wasn't the AA already removed from the Base defences?
10 Dec 2015, 13:23 PM
#6
avatar of CadianGuardsman

Posts: 348

Removing the AA-capabilities of the Flak-Base is a must to reach the goal. Wasn't the AA already removed from the Base defences?


I don't believe so all the replays I've watched post patch still have 20mm AA guns in OKW bases.

Because Relic hates light vehicle harassment. (I'm joking)

Edit: Unless pre-December patch games are still working when watched in replays.
10 Dec 2015, 13:31 PM
#7
avatar of FichtenMoped
Editor in Chief Badge
Patrion 310

Posts: 4785 | Subs: 3



I don't believe so all the replays I've watched post patch still have 20mm AA guns in OKW bases.

Because Relic hates light vehicle harassment. (I'm joking)

Edit: Unless pre-December patch games are still working when watched in replays.


The AA Guns aren't the problem as a base defence (Although I think they are a bit off since MGs are the way to go for the other factions) it's just that they shouldn't be able to target Planes.
10 Dec 2015, 14:01 PM
#8
avatar of CadianGuardsman

Posts: 348



The AA Guns aren't the problem as a base defence (Although I think they are a bit off since MGs are the way to go for the other factions) it's just that they shouldn't be able to target Planes.


Slightly off topic but they are a problem. They prevent allied players from really punishing OKW players who neglect early game AT. This means that a USF/Brit/USSR player is inherently disadvantaged as they only have a forward facing MG.

Seriously if the OKW faction - the faction with access to a Tier 0 AT gun, neglects their AT they deserve to be base raped at 7 min. But at the very least you are right. They shouldn't be able to target Aircraft.

10 Dec 2015, 14:04 PM
#9
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

Hello.

I do agree on the OP. Sounds rather a good idea (plus the actuel drop require you to have a unit at base) and would spice up the ability. Maybe make it "give fuel for you if you get it" and "destroy the loadout without gaining anything" for the ennemy.

Kozo.
10 Dec 2015, 14:05 PM
#10
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

I'm all for dropping on fuel/ammo point instead of base. In fact it's a buff, since I don't need to retreat.

But if it's the case, allied supply drop should be also based on MP, not ammo.

And all planes should be fragile for AA units (remove schwerer and flak bases AA abilities)
10 Dec 2015, 18:02 PM
#11
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

the Axis supply drop is hard to counter. It flies in fro the short side and can drop off all the cargo before getting shot down. THe Allied supply drop flies in fro the opposite side of the map and gets demolished by AA. The Allied supply drop should come in from the friendly side of the map, just like the Axis one
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

Korea, Republic Of 5
unknown 3

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

430 users are online: 1 member and 429 guests
Snack_Master
6 posts in the last 24h
32 posts in the last week
86 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44638
Welcome our newest member, Leilichuu96
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM