It's getting out of hand now. P4's start acting like panthers, and panthers become nigh-invincible. Artillery ceases to affect infantry and Pgrens sat in front of two vetted con squads with ppsh's and suffered no casualties. It's like shield generator now. It was clunky before due to the territorial aura, but now it can happily cover all your forces letting you a-move your tank/gren/shrecked pgren blob that wipes out everything in a few volleys.
Edit: will some mod please correct the spelling error in the title please?
P4 Command tank aura is too strong.
11 Nov 2015, 18:24 PM
#1
Posts: 372
12 Nov 2015, 00:51 AM
#2
Posts: 269
For one it can't be like a panther because it has almost no penetration anyways. As for beating 2 squads, that's RNG, not the aura. It ain't called Company of RNG for nothing.
12 Nov 2015, 01:03 AM
#3
Posts: 1225
Actually I think you're correct and it is too strong, however, a minor adjustment would really do. If you're looking for truly OP stuff with Ostheer however I suggest you try Osttruppen. 
12 Nov 2015, 01:04 AM
#4
Posts: 2779
Do you know what did the Aura actually do?
God, this thread
God, this thread
12 Nov 2015, 01:12 AM
#5
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Actually I think you're correct and it is too strong, however, a minor adjustment would really do. If you're looking for truly OP stuff with Ostheer however I suggest you try Osttruppen.
To be fair the two can be combined in the Mobile Defense Doctrine.
12 Nov 2015, 01:36 AM
#6
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
The Aura is fair. This is a unique, team lead sort of unit.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
12 Nov 2015, 01:46 AM
#7
Posts: 1150
P4 command tank gives 20% damage reduction to units in the aura.
Essentially, units have 120% HP. It's nice if you have nothing heavier than a Panther to take on an IS2, for example.
Essentially, units have 120% HP. It's nice if you have nothing heavier than a Panther to take on an IS2, for example.
12 Nov 2015, 02:04 AM
#8
Posts: 279
Hey, just chiming in on my 2 cents.
Then wouldn't it be more fair if the team lead did not receive the buff, like it does currently? I think that's a fantastic fix for the command p4.
I read about this somewhere a few months ago on these very forums that rang true with me. It may be 120% hp, but think about the time to kill a tank that is affected by the command aura. If a standard p4 has 640 hp, and with the command aura that hp becomes 640 + 128 = 768, then the shots it takes to kill that p4 goes from 4 --> 5. That means the unit's effective hp is 125% because it takes 25% more time to kill the unit with the aura than without it. The buff is stronger than just the stats.
Like I said, I'd be in favor of removing the buff on the command p4 only. It makes "focusing the leader" viable, whereas right now, not so much.
The Aura is fair. This is a unique, team lead sort of unit.
Then wouldn't it be more fair if the team lead did not receive the buff, like it does currently? I think that's a fantastic fix for the command p4.
P4 command tank gives 20% damage reduction to units in the aura.
Essentially, units have 120% HP. It's nice if you have nothing heavier than a Panther to take on an IS2, for example.
I read about this somewhere a few months ago on these very forums that rang true with me. It may be 120% hp, but think about the time to kill a tank that is affected by the command aura. If a standard p4 has 640 hp, and with the command aura that hp becomes 640 + 128 = 768, then the shots it takes to kill that p4 goes from 4 --> 5. That means the unit's effective hp is 125% because it takes 25% more time to kill the unit with the aura than without it. The buff is stronger than just the stats.
Like I said, I'd be in favor of removing the buff on the command p4 only. It makes "focusing the leader" viable, whereas right now, not so much.
12 Nov 2015, 08:37 AM
#9
Posts: 26
P4 command tank gives 20% damage reduction to units in the aura.
Essentially, units have 120% HP. It's nice if you have nothing heavier than a Panther to take on an IS2, for example.
Actually 20% reduction in damage is like units having 125% HP. To put it mathematically, shots to kill a unit is (Unit HP)/(Shot damage). Command tank multiplies shot damage by 0.8, so we get (Unit HP)/(0.8 x Shot damage) = 1/0.8 x (Unit HP)/(Shot damage) = 1.25 x (Unit HP)/(Shot damage).
Command tank has a deceptively large influence on infantry. A grenadier model has 80 hp and conscript rifles to 16 damage, so a model will die to 5th received shot. If the damage is reduced to 0.8 x 16 = 12.8, grenadiers will die to to 7th hit, which is a 40% increase. Similarly, hits to kill a gren with riflemen Garands rises from 10 to 13, a 30% increase.
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12 Nov 2015, 09:19 AM
#10
Posts: 1150
Actually 20% reduction in damage is like units having 125% HP. To put it mathematically, shots to kill a unit is (Unit HP)/(Shot damage). Command tank multiplies shot damage by 0.8, so we get (Unit HP)/(0.8 x Shot damage) = 1/0.8 x (Unit HP)/(Shot damage) = 1.25 x (Unit HP)/(Shot damage).
Command tank has a deceptively large influence on infantry. A grenadier model has 80 hp and conscript rifles to 16 damage, so a model will die to 5th received shot. If the damage is reduced to 0.8 x 16 = 12.8, grenadiers will die to to 7th hit, which is a 40% increase. Similarly, hits to kill a gren with riflemen Garands rises from 10 to 13, a 30% increase.
Ahh, I see.
I think one must also take into account the timing of which a P4 command tank would hit the field; there are all sorts of other factors that add damage on an enemy unit; artillery, flames, explosions, AT grenades, etc.
While the stats certainly are troubling when analyzing them on paper, it's also important to remember things like player reaction time and general RNG are also affecting the outcome of engagements.
12 Nov 2015, 09:20 AM
#11
Posts: 1217
Hey, just chiming in on my 2 cents.The aura is perfectly fine. You spend 125 fuel for a short barreled Panzer IV that can´t handle armored targets. If the enemy has a Command Panzer IV and a Panzer IV, you should have three SU-76 or something comparable. The Command Panzer IV had already been nerfed out of the game previously. No need to return to that. It´s nice to have something next to Elefant + Tiger meta.
Then wouldn't it be more fair if the team lead did not receive the buff, like it does currently? I think that's a fantastic fix for the command p4.
I read about this somewhere a few months ago on these very forums that rang true with me. It may be 120% hp, but think about the time to kill a tank that is affected by the command aura. If a standard p4 has 640 hp, and with the command aura that hp becomes 640 + 128 = 768, then the shots it takes to kill that p4 goes from 4 --> 5. That means the unit's effective hp is 125% because it takes 25% more time to kill the unit with the aura than without it. The buff is stronger than just the stats.
Like I said, I'd be in favor of removing the buff on the command p4 only. It makes "focusing the leader" viable, whereas right now, not so much.
12 Nov 2015, 09:31 AM
#12
Posts: 830
Ostheer sniper supported by p4 ant its auro is just game breaking, the sniper can't die with the aura bonus. Only a lucky artillery hit can kill it.
12 Nov 2015, 09:34 AM
#13
Posts: 366
Ostheer sniper supported by p4 ant its auro is just game breaking, the sniper can't die with the aura bonus. Only a lucky artillery hit can kill it.
lmao
We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them
12 Nov 2015, 10:14 AM
#14
Posts: 403
The aura is stupid, but what else would you swap it with? A short barreled p4 that does nothing else isn't worth that much. And if you nerf the %, I'm not sure someone would do the math on where is the line but it could not even make tanks survive an extra hit which would be useless.
My place in the ladder is irrelevant as long as I am matched with opponents of the same rank and play all factions (balance at place 1000+ is no different from balance in top 100 if we consider what I said before the brakets) so I don't care about your assertion which is also irrelevant.
12 Nov 2015, 12:43 PM
#15
Posts: 509
P4 command tank gives 20% damage reduction to units in the aura.
Essentially, units have 120% HP. It's nice if you have nothing heavier than a Panther to take on an IS2, for example.
Just to clarify: 20% dmg reduction applies to vehicles only. Infantry and crew weapons get a received accuracy buff. So arty will affect them normally
12 Nov 2015, 13:09 PM
#16
Posts: 301
The aura is perfectly fine. You spend 125 fuel for a short barreled Panzer IV that can´t handle armored targets. If the enemy has a Command Panzer IV and a Panzer IV, you should have three SU-76 or something comparable. The Command Panzer IV had already been nerfed out of the game previously. No need to return to that. It´s nice to have something next to Elefant + Tiger meta.
+1
This topic is getting old. It has been seen many times that this unit is both fair and well priced, but still, a new thread about OPAURAP4COMMANDTANKSHITOMG is poping every 2-3 months.
The more i think about this, the more i see this unit as something very unique in the game that many fail to understand. A lot of player see a P4 with a nice additional aura but few see what has been taken in exchange.
Basically this is an more armored Ostwind with less DPS and a devensive aura at the price of a P4.
...For conflict is the great teacher,
and pain... the perfect educator...
and pain... the perfect educator...
12 Nov 2015, 13:17 PM
#17
Posts: 692
Ostheer sniper supported by p4 ant its auro is just game breaking, the sniper can't die with the aura bonus. Only a lucky artillery hit can kill it.
16 more hitpoints = unkillable?
please shut up
12 Nov 2015, 14:19 PM
#18
Posts: 1954
To be fair the two can be combined in the Mobile Defense Doctrine.
Mobile Defense used to be awesome when one of the Ostruppen spawned with LMG's and they didn't have such a high RA penalty. I only tried it a few times but won several 1v1's by just going T1 & T2 plus call-ins. It felt like playing Soviets at that time.
I use the P4 command tank in most team games and don't think that it is game breaking, especially when Ost cannot build green cover (except in a few doctrines).
12 Nov 2015, 14:19 PM
#19
2 
Posts: 1108
Just to clarify: 20% dmg reduction applies to vehicles only. Infantry and crew weapons get a received accuracy buff. So arty will affect them normally
are you sure? I thought the 20% damage reduction, applies for infrantry/support weapons as well...
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12 Nov 2015, 14:57 PM
#20
Posts: 26
Just to clarify: 20% dmg reduction applies to vehicles only. Infantry and crew weapons get a received accuracy buff. So arty will affect them normally
No, infantry definitely gets the damage reduction. You can test this in the CheatCommands mod.
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