To be fair, they were one nation fighting everybody else on multiple fronts. I'm not hailing nazis.
Not counting the Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, Slovaks, Finns, Croats and probably a few others that I forgot
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To be fair, they were one nation fighting everybody else on multiple fronts. I'm not hailing nazis.
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Not counting the Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, Slovaks, Finns, Croats and probably a few others that I forgot
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and probably a few others that I forgot
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Looks like this thread has taken a turn. It's not going to be a discussion, but instead everyone showing of their ego and talking about how everyone else is worthless.
I approve Keepo
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WW 2 myths busted:
Clickidy click
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I am pretty much in agreement with every point here. I think the biggest problem with the analysis of armor & the hobby is the extreme 'focus' on fairly meaningless aspects/technical details of armor and not the capability, logistics handling, services, and troop training/tactics of the armored formation, which was in fact far more important than the equipment item.
Another focus that is coolly ignored is how useful the tank is at the operational level and how it fits in.
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I am pretty much in agreement with every point here. I think the biggest problem with the analysis of armor & the hobby is the extreme 'focus' on fairly meaningless aspects/technical details of armor and not the capability, logistics handling, services, and troop training/tactics of the armored formation, which was in fact far more important than the equipment item.
Another focus that is coolly ignored is how useful the tank is at the operational level and how it fits in.
I agree. Having gotten a minor in German Military History (Majored in computer programming ) The key to note is that Armor was almost never deployed in single entities but rather in formations. These formations and tactics made for a higher degree of the success rather than the individual tank "Stats". Having a high velocity 75mm gun on a panther ment nothing had the German Optics not been good enough to allow for the tank crew to engage at ranges exceeding Russian/American ranges and using the 75mm to its fullest capabilities.
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Actually it goes even farther than that. Great optics on a high velocity gun in a strong frontally armored tank run in formations isn't of much use if the crew is inexperienced, the ground is broken and/or wooded, the opponent is experienced and lying in ambush. In such situations the "superior" Panther formation will die fast to side shots from M4's, m10s, m18s in prepared positions.
Exhibit one is the battle of Arracourt - 75 Mark IVs and 107 Mark Vs, 80 armored fighting vehicles such as assault guns vs the 4th Armored division (190 M4s and 77 Stuarts at full strenght), and a TD battalion (36 m18s at full strength). At the end of the battle 7th Pz. Army had 62 effective vehicles left tot he loss of 41 m4s and 7 Stuarts.
Studies showed that the winner in most tank engagements was the side that was able to set the nature of the battle (defensive lines, ambush, etc) and fight according to its strengths. This is not unlike airplane dogfighting where it is much less important how the planes match up then whether the pilots know how to use their plane's strengths and avoid its weaknesses.
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There was no mythical machine that won everthing for either side.
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Yes but just the same, the P-51 was great and technologically advanced yes but was soon outclassed/outgunned/outproduced by Sabers because of advances from the German ME262. The P-51 only lasted a few years and was subsequently retired. Now on that topic the only true mythical machine in any arsenal I can think of is the B-52 Bomber with planned service all the way to 2040. Anyway back to topic. Sorry OP
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Don't worry, I can bring this back to topic and save you from the invisi-gods...
The mythical war machine is the M2 50cal machine gun. A WWI design that we are still using today and that has survived every modern attempt at replacing it. It was designed about 50 years after the invention of the Gatling gun. It is now almost 100 years since it was designed. I remember thinking of its longevity when the Marines were using it in the Battle of Khafji, and that was 24 years ago (sheesh, I am old).
(Each generation of jet has had a longer life. The 4th gen fighters have now lasted 40 years and it was 30 years until they were being supplanted. That kind of life cycle is now planned into the 5th gen fighters. Maybe with UAV's they will last a shorter time. The B-52 is still very good at dropping large qtys of munitions, and little else, but with the assumption of air supremacy and with stand-off weapons, that is all it really needs to do.)
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