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russian armor

Toggle function to keep spacing between squads

24 Feb 2015, 18:16 PM
#21
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 971

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Feb 2015, 18:08 PMInverse
So if CoH2 isn't about high APM, then it should be easy to achieve APM high enough to control units properly, yes? Even in CoH, where top players don't care enough about mechanics as they should, I guarantee you that there isn't a single high-level 1v1 player who has a problem with this. Not one. Again, two actions per move command is nothing.

This isn't random at all, it's properly rewarding good play and punishing bad play. Are you not good enough to micro a few units in an extremely simple way? Yes? Well, you're going to lose more often. And if you practice and improve, you're going to lose less often. Problem solved.


Thanks for you comments.

P.S it would be great to watch you actively microing you units on the COH2 battlefield. I could learn a lot faster then by reading it only.
24 Feb 2015, 18:20 PM
#22
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

YAY..this suggestion would be good if it would change the space between squad members, not the squads.

If players tend to mass-move their army by a few clicks, it must have a downside (AOE weapons/lack of micro)...this idea denies both of it.

This will only help "blobbers" more to "skill" their way forward. Sorry; I don't think players want to see 3 volks or obers attacking (3 clicks only) without the risk of AOE insta-wipe. So we'd have "spacing between squads" guys instead of blobbers...which would only cause more frustration to counter. :(

24 Feb 2015, 18:28 PM
#23
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 971



It would help blobbing because what currently counters blobs is artillery, area of effect weapons, demo charges, etc. These weapons work best the closer the infantry is together. With the function you suggest, people will be free to move large groups of units simultaneously (which means together, at the same time) while taking minimum risk against anti-blob weapons, due to their better spacing.

So people would still just move all units as one, they just will now be harder to counter with things originally intended to counter them.

Like Inverse said, you can achieve the same result this feature would apply by simply microing better/faster.


But i'm as much against clickfests than i'm against blobbers or random.

But i understand you point. But i still don't think a formation tools would be really help blobbers that much because the terrain would still be there.

Multiple squad wipe on a clear field while they move is bad (random), but on choke point is nice (bad play).

Thanks for your time.
24 Feb 2015, 18:30 PM
#24
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 971

YAY..this suggestion would be good if it would change the space between squad members, not the squads.

If players tend to mass-move their army by a few clicks, it must have a downside (AOE weapons/lack of micro)...this idea denies both of it.

This will only help "blobbers" more to "skill" their way forward. Sorry; I don't think players want to see 3 volks or obers attacking (3 clicks only) without the risk of AOE insta-wipe. So we'd have "spacing between squads" guys instead of blobbers...which would only cause more frustration to counter. :(



I understand. But you could still use terrain features and good positioning to defend yourself.

Thanks for your time.
24 Feb 2015, 18:32 PM
#25
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 971

Well i got a good idea of what the objections are and why they are made.

Thanks everyone, i said everyone ;) for your time, it's was very appreciated !
24 Feb 2015, 18:50 PM
#26
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

not needed at all
24 Feb 2015, 20:18 PM
#27
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Feb 2015, 17:46 PMCruzz
Would just help with blobbing your units forward with one click without incurring the intended penalty of having your units be more vulnerable to AOE. Would be hard to code to act naturally whenever there is not enough space to fit the squads through in the "formation".

I wouldn't want to see this.


I agree with Cruzz, this will for sure buff the blob plague and make indirect fire useless (ea. Mortars).
24 Feb 2015, 20:21 PM
#28
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053



I'm rather thinking that would help less experienced people getting into the game without removing any tactical or strategical aspects of it.

Thanks for your comments !


New players have to learn to play the game. The game does not stoop to help others get an advantage for their lack of learning. They play, they lose, and they learn to make sure it doesnt happen again.

There are many guides to improve one's ability to play each faction, and experienced players have made many guides to help those who find it hard to learn to win.
24 Feb 2015, 20:29 PM
#29
avatar of Death's Head

Posts: 440

I was thinking the opposite. In real life if a squad commander knew his unit was being targeted by mortar/artillery fire, he'd order them to "maintain intervals", and not bunch up. You don't have to make this a dumb/lazy on/off switch, but rather a RMB hold and drag to increase separation and direction/facing.

This would actually increase the amount of micro one would need AND add a tactical option to respond to artillery, that should definitely be within the scope of a company-level command game like CoH.
24 Feb 2015, 20:31 PM
#30
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

I was thinking the opposite. In real life if a squad commander knew his unit was being targeted by mortar/artillery fire, he'd order them to "maintain intervals", and not bunch up. You don't have to make this a dumb/lazy on/off switch, but rather a RMB hold and drag to increase separation and direction/facing.

This would actually increase the amount of micro one would need AND add a tactical option to respond to artillery, that should definitely be within the scope of a company-level command game like CoH.


Reminds me of Total War with spread formation, I like this idea.
24 Feb 2015, 20:35 PM
#31
avatar of Death's Head

Posts: 440



Reminds me of Total War with spread formation, I like this idea.


Exactly, you got it.

It wouldn't totally negate artillery of course but it would mitigate the common squad wipes due to RNG by giving some control to the player. Besides, they wouldn't get in spread automatically so it would require some skill to maintain your infantry for a few moments longer.
24 Feb 2015, 20:35 PM
#32
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1678 | Subs: 5

You can manually spread your units with two clicks per squad. If you can't handle that in a game with basement-level multitasking requirements, you might want to work on playing above 30APM.
24 Feb 2015, 20:45 PM
#33
avatar of Death's Head

Posts: 440

Does everything boil down to APM though? I'm not so sure. Usually providing more options to a given situation results in more enriching play. In the face of mortars you can now a) retreat, b)back off, c) assault or d) maintain position for a moment while not entirely handing over your squad on a silver platter.

To me it's not about making things simpler or easier, but rather tactically rewarding and moreover introducing some basic military sense into a militarily themed game.
24 Feb 2015, 20:50 PM
#34
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1678 | Subs: 5

The thing is, this feature wouldn't add anything to gameplay. It would just let lesser players do something that they could do anyways if they just put a little bit of effort into becoming a better player. There's nothing stopping you from spreading your squads out right now; in fact, if you don't already, you're being lazy and you deserve to be punished for it.

CoH2 has a ridiculously tiny APM requirement. There is absolutely no reason for a player to not be able to manually spread squads unless they're lazy and don't care about improving. This feature would encourage and reward poor micro in a game where micro is really the only way to consistently differentiate yourself from other players.
24 Feb 2015, 20:52 PM
#35
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

i think death's head is talking about squad entity spread? not squad to squad spread.
24 Feb 2015, 20:55 PM
#36
avatar of Death's Head

Posts: 440

Correct, apologies if I didn't make that clear enough. There would be independent actions per squad, with a preview of how wide the spread would be while holding RMB and of course arrows for direction/facing.
24 Feb 2015, 20:57 PM
#37
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1678 | Subs: 5

That would be fine. I feel like it would be tough to code though given Relic's struggle with infantry pathing in the past.
24 Feb 2015, 21:01 PM
#38
avatar of Death's Head

Posts: 440

^Maybe it's something to shelf for "CoH3" in that case because we really don't need one of your guys walking all the way around a farm just because you apparently spread him on the other side of a fence. MVGame.

Still...would be nice.
24 Feb 2015, 21:36 PM
#39
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927

I don't understand why you want to remove micro from a game that is strategically shallow already. What seperates a average player to a good player? Their ability to micro and multitask, it sure as hell not about "outsmarting the other player" because there is not much you can outthink someone in coh to begin with.

And what you mean with "3 squads wipe randomly"? I have never seen that ever happened unless some player was stupid enough to blob up their squads because they suck.
24 Feb 2015, 22:13 PM
#40
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

This seems like an excessive idea. when you select more than one unit just hit the TAB key to cycle through them and micro.

Also keep in mind that Voltar plays 4v4 where the main strat is blobbing.
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