Panzershrecks outrange T70 and T34

DPS doesn't really matter if we are comparing schrecks and bazookas. No one is going to let their tank sit there for more than 20 seconds ( im being very generous). What really matters is range, penetration and damage, and to an extent, aim time and reload.

i really wish people took your example and do the same when confronting shreks.

sounds like eldar vs SM in DoW2. officially sanctioned shitty match up btw.

I just play with the cards that I'm dealt

i really wish people took your example and do the same when confronting shreks.

i think it would mean bazookas are either to crappy or panzerschrecks too good. Its unreasonable to say that the bazookas are actually decent because it has the same DPS of the schreck after so-and-so shots. Like i said, no one sits their tank there to e shot at for dozens of times.

i think it would mean bazookas are either to crappy or panzerschrecks too good. Its unreasonable to say that the bazookas are actually decent because it has the same DPS of the schreck after so-and-so shots. Like i said, no one sits their tank there to e shot at for dozens of times.

No the zooka simply lacks targets. it excels against vehicles and medium tanks. while you see some vehicles, currently the okw elite armor doctrine is piss poor and ostheer tier 3 is in shambles. so you wont be seeing p4 anytime soon. neither handeld weapon performs well against the heavy tanks however.

No the zooka simply lacks targets. it excels against vehicles and medium tanks. while you see some medium vehicle currently the okw elite armor doctrine is piss poor and ostheer tier 3 is in shambles. neither handeld weapon performs well against the heavy tanks

what you say is true. there is a matchup issue. Medium tanks play a bigger role for USF and Sov while OKW and Ostheer (especially OKW) go for the heavier tanks. THis is why i feel schrecks are a bigger problem for Allied players.

imo shermans are the best medium armor [...] having the best mounted MG.

Don't assume that just because it's the most expensive mounted MG, it's also the best.

For example, it's just slightly stronger than Tiger/Panther MG42 but weaker than P4/Stug/etc. MG42, while also being the most expensive one.

It doesn't really impact the quality of Sherman tanks as a whole though.

pshreks are damn near OP, but they certainly don't outrange tanks

i'm pretty sure the best pintle gun is the VI B one, that thing's dps seems near the mg34, visually. don't know what the actual numbers are.

After WFA comes i see maybe few times how volks shrek miss in all range in my games. So for me when thay miss this fact need add to Red books .

Even with the bit of range the tanks have on Shrecks, kiting infantry is an absolute joke, considering the terrible vehicle pathfinding in this game.

And that juice max range accurate shreck shots from the blob....nyammm, who the hell needs T3 - GG

how do you let a sherman eat more than one volley from the blob.

edit: did some math, comparing zookas to shreks in their performance against each medium armor. we've got shreks vs shermans, and zookas vs panzer 4s

Shreks time to kill a sherman (shrek has 100% penetration vs sherman armor at all ranges) is 51 seconds. Zookas time to kill a panzer 4 is 55 seconds (zookas chance to penetrate varies from 64% at max range, and 77% at the closest range against frontal armor). Bazookas cost 60 munitions, and wehr shreks cost 60 munitions, and okw shreks cost 108 munitions if you factor in the munitions penalty.

Why are you comparing Shermans to lolmagicalbuttonpushcarpetride Panzer 4?


These are not comparable units. One pushes a button to make all facing AT stop targeting it, and forces any unit that'd manually been ordered to fire to charge at it point blank while it fumbles through the smoke to find it's target which, even point blank, still will not see.


The other has a minimum range for a comparable ability that'll still have an active delay.


One gets an ability that gives it a huge movement speed boost when active.


The other has wishful thinking.


One gets practical survivability improvements at vet 2.


The other gets offensive improvements to make it competitive at vet 2.


Panzershreks are more useful than bazookas. More damage, better penetration while fighting tanks with less armor, slightly better scatter.


Bazookas do not typically bother me playing as the Germans, but then again I'm also not required to make my generalist tanks fight infantry.

i really wish people took your example and do the same when confronting shreks.

I wholeheartedly agree that all stealth mechanics should be stripped from German units, all units with range outside Allied sight range be rendered visible anyways, and all allied players be given no fog of war so that they're never caught unawares.


I also agree that German units should be stripped of their veterency bonuses- by '44 it was just old men and children anyways since the "vets" in the German army were dead or rotting away in POW camps- since those go a long way in turning riflemen from credible threats to CP pinatas.


Oh wait, you mean I have to use my tanks to fight infantry because my infantry can't fight your infantry? Oh, well, maybe there's a problem here.

Why are you comparing Shermans to lolmagicalbuttonpushcarpetride Panzer 4?


These are not comparable units. One pushes a button to make all facing AT stop targeting it, and forces any unit that'd manually been ordered to fire to charge at it point blank while it fumbles through the smoke to find it's target which, even point blank, still will not see.


The other has a minimum range for a comparable ability that'll still have an active delay.


One gets an ability that gives it a huge movement speed boost when active.


The other has wishful thinking.


One gets practical survivability improvements at vet 2.


The other gets offensive improvements to make it competitive at vet 2.


Panzershreks are more useful than bazookas. More damage, better penetration while fighting tanks with less armor, slightly better scatter.


Bazookas do not typically bother me playing as the Germans, but then again I'm also not required to make my generalist tanks fight infantry.




I wholeheartedly agree that all stealth mechanics should be stripped from German units, all units with range outside Allied sight range be rendered visible anyways, and all allied players be given no fog of war so that they're never caught unawares.


I also agree that German units should be stripped of their veterency bonuses- by '44 it was just old men and children anyways since the "vets" in the German army were dead or rotting away in POW camps- since those go a long way in turning riflemen from credible threats to CP pinatas.


Oh wait, you mean I have to use my tanks to fight infantry because my infantry can't fight your infantry? Oh, well, maybe there's a problem here.

i compare the sherman and panzer 4 because theyre both MEDIUM tanks. the shermans lackluster AT capabilities is more than made up in the jackson. the sherman has extremely potent AI capabilities, the best out of the medium tanks in fact.
while blitz is a strong ability, you shouldnt be sending your tanks into a situation where blitz is required for it to live. that is just bad decision making, and the same should be applied when using allied tanks. dont overextend into enemy AT that theres no hope of recovery. dont be retarded basically.

Smoke is arguably better in certain situations than blitz. for example, theres a line of paks, with enemy infantry in front. it would be better to smoke the paks in the back, so that your shermans can shoot the infantry in the front while the paks reposition to get clear line of sight. with blitz you would be forced to just pullback. in essence sherman smoke is more of an offensive ability compared to tactical smoke and blitz. not to mention tactical is doctrinal. the counterplay to smoke is to simply attack ground.

im not arguing that bazookas are just as good as shreks. shreks are definitely the better overall portable AT weapon. but the fact is, with penetration aside, bazookas do basically the same DPS as a shreks do. in fact, its easier to shoot and scoot with the bazooka because of the higher fire rate.

just a friendly reminder that double bar vet 3 rifles are just as strong as obers. friendly reminder that vet 3 pathfinders with bars are stronger than obers.

with penetration aside, bazookas do basically the same DPS as a shreks do.

just a friendly reminder that double bar vet 3 rifles are just as strong as obers. friendly reminder that vet 3 pathfinders with bars are stronger than obers.

I would like to see stats that prove that zooks are consistently equal to shreks

you cant just put "aside" penetration to attempt to prove ur point

Also stats that prove vet 3 bar'd rifles are just as good as obers. even at long range

I want to see stats that prove that bar'd pathfinders are better then ober. again, at long range where it matters

how do you let a sherman eat more than one volley from the blob.

edit: did some math, comparing zookas to shreks in their performance against each medium armor. we've got shreks vs shermans, and zookas vs panzer 4s

Shreks time to kill a sherman (shrek has 100% penetration vs sherman armor at all ranges) is 51 seconds. Zookas time to kill a panzer 4 is 55 seconds (zookas chance to penetrate varies from 64% at max range, and 77% at the closest range against frontal armor). Bazookas cost 60 munitions, and wehr shreks cost 60 munitions, and okw shreks cost 108 munitions if you factor in the munitions penalty.

That's theory, but what about practice? Well...
You counted OKW schreck with lower ammo income, so why you did not count MP and F cost for zooks?
Schreck -> 54s



Bazooka -> 99s

I would like to see stats that prove that zooks are consistently equal to shreks

you cant just put "aside" penetration to attempt to prove ur point

Also stats that prove vet 3 bar'd rifles are just as good as obers. even at long range

I want to see stats that prove that bar'd pathfinders are better then ober. again, at long range where it matters

even if it were equal dps-wise, i still dont think bazookas are very good. As i said earlier, dps does not really matter. No one would sit their tank out in front of these AT weapons and eat more than 5 volleys. The first several shots are the ones that count, and that is why the panzerschreck is so much better

That's theory, but what about practice? Well...
You counted OKW schreck with lower ammo income, so why you did not count MP and F cost for zooks?
Schreck -> 54s



Bazooka -> 99s

That's 1 Zook right? For good comparison squad should have 2 Zooks, be closer muni cost wise.

It doesn't matter when you compare against what both Bazooka and Panzershrek are used. As much as some people would like to neglect it but penetration and armour thickness does matter.

That's 1 Zook right? For good comparison squad should have 2 Zooks, be closer muni cost wise.

Keep in mind MP and F cost to unlock bazookas.

Do shreks have better accuracy than zooks?

It seems way harder to get zooks to hit in the first place compared to shreks.