Sorry but panzerwerfer is much better than the kat.
Fires its entire payload at once, which makes it more deadly and safer than the Kat (Kat rockets are only dangerous on this first volley, and exposes itself for much longer than the werfer).
Werfer also doesn't have to contend with units like fallschirms using their personal teleporters to faust them, and allies have no useful light vehicles like the puma to threaten them
Yep I'm going there, Panzerwerfer
17 Nov 2014, 01:44 AM
#21
Posts: 692
17 Nov 2014, 01:59 AM
#22
7 
Posts: 1664
Katyushas are anti-blob and wherfers are anti-set-up teams. This is an apples and oranges issue.
17 Nov 2014, 02:34 AM
#23
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
Generally comes too late to be effective given the cost of Ostheer T4 in most games and you're probably then making the first purchase towards the Panther. Some people may say it's better, but you have to drive it up to half its range for the barrage to be effective, preferably with LOS. Good on some maps, not so good on others.
17 Nov 2014, 03:00 AM
#24
Posts: 1248
Lets just make it 10 or 5 fuel cheaper and reduce the manpower cost by 50 or 30 to compensate for its performance compared to other artillery.
17 Nov 2014, 03:08 AM
#25
Posts: 482
It should hit the field earlier. Katyusha can come out even earlier than a T34/76, while werfer sucks due to the highest tech cost of this game.
The ostheer tech cost needs to be adjusted.
The ostheer tech cost needs to be adjusted.
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17 Nov 2014, 03:13 AM
#26
8 Posts: 2470
shift cost from BP to buildings and reduce it a little while at it.
17 Nov 2014, 03:16 AM
#27
1 Posts: 927
Its awesome, most people seems to fail to understand that the closer you are the tighter the spread. I constantly see people use it from max range. T4 being too expensive in 1v1 game is a problem.
17 Nov 2014, 03:24 AM
#28
Posts: 482
Generally comes too late to be effective given the cost of Ostheer T4 in most games and you're probably then making the first purchase towards the Panther. Some people may say it's better, but you have to drive it up to half its range for the barrage to be effective, preferably with LOS. Good on some maps, not so good on others.
Yes you have to drive it up to closer area to make the barrage to be effective. At the max range, it can't be accurate any more. At max range, without recon, it can kill 1-3 soldiers...
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17 Nov 2014, 03:41 AM
#29
Posts: 1225
Useless unit indeed. Every now and then I build it for the lulz, only to find out that it still sucks...no comparison to Stuka or Kat, would need a price reduction or performance increase to be viable at all.
Not to mention that in a competitive game, going T4 poses an insane risk for little potential reward in the first place.
Not to mention that in a competitive game, going T4 poses an insane risk for little potential reward in the first place.
17 Nov 2014, 03:48 AM
#30
Posts: 1225
Katyushas are anti-blob and wherfers are anti-set-up teams. This is an apples and oranges issue.
While that is true in principle, the Kat performs well in its role, while the Werfer really does not. And its not like the Katyusha cannot decrew ie. Pak as well...in fact, the limited mobility of weapon teams means that actually more of the Kat damage potential will be realised...
17 Nov 2014, 04:04 AM
#31
Posts: 2742
A single katyusha rocket, if it hits, kills 1-2 infantry, especially ones in cover or as weapon crews.
Four man squads suffer this pain much more pronouncedly than six.
A panzerwerfer rocket can kill 1-3 easily, and can nearly wipe a squad that's bunched up behind a single truck or wall section.
Six man squads and crews can suffer those loses quite readily.
Solution: Give panzerwerfer rockets a residual fire, and/or perhaps a low level of suppression as the rockets hit. Just like the nebelwerfer rockets from CoH1.
Four man squads suffer this pain much more pronouncedly than six.
A panzerwerfer rocket can kill 1-3 easily, and can nearly wipe a squad that's bunched up behind a single truck or wall section.
Six man squads and crews can suffer those loses quite readily.
Solution: Give panzerwerfer rockets a residual fire, and/or perhaps a low level of suppression as the rockets hit. Just like the nebelwerfer rockets from CoH1.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
17 Nov 2014, 04:40 AM
#32
Posts: 952
For those saying that the Werfer performs well, I'd encourage you to watch this cast:
All credits to Romeo of course.
All credits to Romeo of course.
17 Nov 2014, 05:39 AM
#33
Posts: 104
By no means am I saying it doesn't need a buff or a change butt..
Here is the run down of the barrages from that game:
-1st barrage, max range , no sight , blind fire,(hit nothing)
-2ed barrage. max range but knew where the at gun was..
-3rd barrage. max range. no sight, and i'm taking he assumed it was there because I know the grens cant see that far.
-4th barrage. compleatly blind, max range , no vision. manages to get a moddle this time
.,
-5th barrage, he kills the crew repairing and almost wipes a rifle, (1 moddle left and again fired from max range, so he got lucky.
-One of his barrages he was actually close range, but miss targeted(you have to admit that.)
He is using the werfer like a kat... and this is a perfect example , you need be close+ shot blockers + sight or pray to RNG Jesus , like barrage 5
Comapired to the easy use of Stuka or kat, yeah its underperfroming. but I dont agree on using this replay as a judge for strenght or weekness of the werfer
Here is the run down of the barrages from that game:
-1st barrage, max range , no sight , blind fire,(hit nothing)
-2ed barrage. max range but knew where the at gun was..
-3rd barrage. max range. no sight, and i'm taking he assumed it was there because I know the grens cant see that far.
-4th barrage. compleatly blind, max range , no vision. manages to get a moddle this time
.,-5th barrage, he kills the crew repairing and almost wipes a rifle, (1 moddle left and again fired from max range, so he got lucky.
-One of his barrages he was actually close range, but miss targeted(you have to admit that.)
He is using the werfer like a kat... and this is a perfect example , you need be close+ shot blockers + sight or pray to RNG Jesus , like barrage 5
Comapired to the easy use of Stuka or kat, yeah its underperfroming. but I dont agree on using this replay as a judge for strenght or weekness of the werfer
17 Nov 2014, 06:02 AM
#34
Posts: 150
Well, compared to other vehicles like the katy or the stuka the panzerwerfer is kinda underperforming. Sure it get's better when you drive closer to the enemy and when you are able to get los it performs even better. So.... i think it can't be that a weapon is totally useless on it's max range and compared to it's high cost it's not really valuable. In my opinion the problem isn't the panzerwerfer itself, it's more the performance of the other mobile artillerys who make it look bad.
17 Nov 2014, 06:13 AM
#35
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
also dont forget that shooting into fog actually increases scatter vs shooting where you have sight
17 Nov 2014, 06:52 AM
#36
Posts: 2070
Panzerwerfer is pretty good imo. I would love the Katyusha to deliver all of its rockets at once like the Werfer. Problem is that the Panzerwerfer is in T4 and comes out pretty late. You probably wanna save for a Panther by that time or another tank
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
17 Nov 2014, 07:00 AM
#37
Posts: 1740
A pretty bad unit in a building that 95% of all Ostheer players won't build is some kind of useless. If I really want to play T4 as Ost then I would be rather sending out Brummbär.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
17 Nov 2014, 07:08 AM
#38
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
For an artillery piece it's not to bright. Ok, it should close to the target area in order to be effective, no doubt, but this should an artillery piece do? Artillery in general must be effective from far range. Reduce a little the distance scatter.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
17 Nov 2014, 09:18 AM
#39
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
Wrong tier indeed in the past it was in tier 3 and it should go back their
This. They didn't care to change the audio file ("Medium armor and rocket artillery are now available). It's a good unit, but comes too late and if you go for T4, you have to invest fuel for a panther or sturmpanzer to counter enemy infantry. Move it to T3.
17 Nov 2014, 10:28 AM
#40
Posts: 322
Katyushas are anti-blob and wherfers are anti-set-up teams. This is an apples and oranges issue.
Then what is Ostheers anti heavy blob? Its not the brummbar it has to get too close to at guns to do it.
For an artillery piece it's not to bright. Ok, it should close to the target area in order to be effective, no doubt, but this should an artillery piece do? Artillery in general must be effective from far range. Reduce a little the distance scatter.
Ding ding ding! You shouldn't have to close to super close range with Rocket artillery for it to be effective. Counter battery a kat is already hard enough with the werfers lower range.
Not to mention kat is effective at max range. panzerwerfer is not in addition to having lower range.
Right now its almost better to go elite troops and vet a bummbar to vet 1 and use that.
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