Most of you have some obscure version of the b4 in your mind. The b4 is a super artillery that is very innacurate and more often then not misses its target. Getting to vet 3 is not some easy feat, 3/4 games I've used a b4 it dosnt manage to kill its own weight in resources.
You all need to stop posting on he forums and start playing the game a little more.
About the B-4
18 Nov 2014, 04:53 AM
#341
Posts: 133
18 Nov 2014, 11:57 AM
#342
Posts: 923
So Genossen!
Now that Jagdtiger can no longer fire through geometry is there still really an argument against reducing or removing the tripple vet damage increase? It is 50%! Surley the B-4 with precision strike is strong enough even without doing +50% damage?
Would +25% make it useless or would making 3vet be a useable direct fire make it UP?
Now that Jagdtiger can no longer fire through geometry is there still really an argument against reducing or removing the tripple vet damage increase? It is 50%! Surley the B-4 with precision strike is strong enough even without doing +50% damage?
Would +25% make it useless or would making 3vet be a useable direct fire make it UP?
Disclaimer: Posts made while drunk should not count against this poster.
18 Nov 2014, 15:04 PM
#343
Posts: 658
Maybe you should add some Soviet games to that Axis heavy playercard because you got everything right, except that the B4 comes at 8 CP.
And more IS2's you say? Don't worry, the unthreatened Jagdtigers will dominate every game from here on. Finally we can have true, 100%, Axis dominance in 3v3 and 4v4. It warms my heart.
8cp yap,but 4cp difference in most case stuka comes too late(i meant 2v2) because 1n 4v4 late game comes early
.i ask this question again and again to all(do u agree remove buff isu,JT,B4 ? )
18 Nov 2014, 15:24 PM
#344
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Vet1
Direct fire:
Now pierces through terrain. Reduce damage by -30% (640>>448)
Adjust max range to 85-100
Either reduce cost or make it so as it no longer shares cooldown with mainbarrage (i'm under the impression it's pretty expensive)
Increase pen (1000) and make it so as it is accurate as a Pak43.
Vet 2
-15% Scatter +50% Rotation
-15% Ability Recharge
+Precision Strike Because in comparison to the ML20 Howitzer, there is no drawback on using it in comparison to the main barrage.
Vet 3
-15% Scatter +25% Rotation
-15% Ability Recharge
_______________________________________________
This goes in line with other static artillery changes such as:
-No longer being able to be built inside main base
-Increased health (but still 1 shot by Stuka dive bomb or Railway)
-Passive health regen of crew
-I'm not 100% sure but now all arty cost 600mp. With actual performance: reduce LeFH and ML20 cost to 500mp.
Direct fire:
Now pierces through terrain. Reduce damage by -30% (640>>448)
Adjust max range to 85-100
Either reduce cost or make it so as it no longer shares cooldown with mainbarrage (i'm under the impression it's pretty expensive)
Increase pen (1000) and make it so as it is accurate as a Pak43.
Vet 2
-15% Scatter +50% Rotation
-15% Ability Recharge
+Precision Strike Because in comparison to the ML20 Howitzer, there is no drawback on using it in comparison to the main barrage.
Vet 3
-15% Scatter +25% Rotation
-15% Ability Recharge
_______________________________________________
This goes in line with other static artillery changes such as:
-No longer being able to be built inside main base
-Increased health (but still 1 shot by Stuka dive bomb or Railway)
-Passive health regen of crew
-I'm not 100% sure but now all arty cost 600mp. With actual performance: reduce LeFH and ML20 cost to 500mp.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Nov 2014, 15:58 PM
#345
Posts: 923
Vet1
Direct fire:
Now pierces through terrain. Reduce damage by -30% (640>>448)
Adjust max range to 85-100
Either reduce cost or make it so as it no longer shares cooldown with mainbarrage (i'm under the impression it's pretty expensive)
Increase pen (1000) and make it so as it is accurate as a Pak43.
Vet 2
-15% Scatter +50% Rotation
-15% Ability Recharge
+Precision Strike Because in comparison to the ML20 Howitzer, there is no drawback on using it in comparison to the main barrage.
Vet 3
-15% Scatter +25% Rotation
-15% Ability Recharge
_______________________________________________
This goes in line with other static artillery changes such as:
-No longer being able to be built inside main base
-Increased health (but still 1 shot by Stuka dive bomb or Railway)
-Passive health regen of crew
-I'm not 100% sure but now all arty cost 600mp. With actual performance: reduce LeFH and ML20 cost to 500mp.
Agree with everything except the reduce in scatter. REduce the scatter and you push the effective range of regular fire out, in turn reducing the use of the precision strike and therefore removing the muni cost attached to the unit.
How about changing the scatter buffs you suggested into HP buff instead? Or maybe added range to regular shot but not precision strike?
Disclaimer: Posts made while drunk should not count against this poster.
18 Nov 2014, 16:03 PM
#346
Posts: 292
Vet1
Direct fire:
Now pierces through terrain. Reduce damage by -30% (640>>448)
Adjust max range to 85-100
Either reduce cost or make it so as it no longer shares cooldown with mainbarrage (i'm under the impression it's pretty expensive)
Increase pen (1000) and make it so as it is accurate as a Pak43.
Vet 2
-15% Scatter +50% Rotation
-15% Ability Recharge
+Precision Strike Because in comparison to the ML20 Howitzer, there is no drawback on using it in comparison to the main barrage.
Vet 3
-15% Scatter +25% Rotation
-15% Ability Recharge
_______________________________________________
This goes in line with other static artillery changes such as:
-No longer being able to be built inside main base
-Increased health (but still 1 shot by Stuka dive bomb or Railway)
-Passive health regen of crew
-I'm not 100% sure but now all arty cost 600mp. With actual performance: reduce LeFH and ML20 cost to 500mp.
Wow, you really don't like the B4, do you?
You understand that not a single person from here on would ever consider having this commander in their loadout ever again, if Relic would nerf it as extremely as you suggest?
It would be easier to nerf the damage by a tiny bit, it currently does 1296 damage at vet 3 against a target with Mark Vehicle while super heavy tanks have 1280 hitpoints. If the vet 3 only gave you 45% increased damage it would be a total of ~1253 damage, making it unable to one shot full health super heavy tanks. Also make it unaffected by "For Mother Russia".
Ade, mein liebes Schätzelein
18 Nov 2014, 16:37 PM
#347
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Agree with everything except the reduce in scatter. REduce the scatter and you push the effective range of regular fire out, in turn reducing the use of the precision strike and therefore removing the muni cost attached to the unit.
How about changing the scatter buffs you suggested into HP buff instead? Or maybe added range to regular shot but not precision strike?
I'm guilty of not being complete sure how much it would affect shots at long distances. But since i'm taking out the 50%damage i thought making it more precise and agile would be the better direction.
An increase in range should be in line with how the other Howitzer works, and obviously it should not apply to PS.
Wow, you really don't like the B4, do you?
You understand that not a single person from here on would ever consider having this commander in their loadout ever again, if Relic would nerf it as extremely as you suggest?
It would be easier to nerf the damage by a tiny bit, it currently does 1296 damage at vet 3 against a target with Mark Vehicle while super heavy tanks have 1280 hitpoints. If the vet 3 only gave you 45% increased damage it would be a total of ~1253 damage, making it unable to one shot full health super heavy tanks. Also make it unaffected by "For Mother Russia".
So the unit is useless between vet1 and vet 2 in your opinion? 50% native increase damage is just an overkill and we don't need this kind of things in the game. Being able to 1 shot medium tanks every 40s is not enough for you ?
I can't remember exactly how Cruzz change it, but i'm pretty sure the %50 damage was removed on the Kappatch. I just put some random buffs cause i don't think that a +33% range like the other Howitzer should be good.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Nov 2014, 17:03 PM
#348
Posts: 658
I'm guilty of not being complete sure how much it would affect shots at long distances. But since i'm taking out the 50%damage i thought making it more precise and agile would be the better direction.
An increase in range should be in line with how the other Howitzer works, and obviously it should apply to PS.
So the unit is useless between vet1 and vet 2 in your opinion? 50% native increase damage is just an overkill and we don't need this kind of things in the game. Being able to 1 shot medium tanks every 40s is not enough for you ?
I can't remember exactly how Cruzz change it, but i'm pretty sure the %50 damage was removed on the Kappatch. I just put some random buffs cause i don't think that a +33% range like the other Howitzer should be good.
agree
18 Nov 2014, 17:53 PM
#349
Posts: 292
So the unit is useless between vet1 and vet 2 in your opinion? 50% native increase damage is just an overkill and we don't need this kind of things in the game. Being able to 1 shot medium tanks every 40s is not enough for you ?
I can't remember exactly how Cruzz change it, but i'm pretty sure the %50 damage was removed on the Kappatch. I just put some random buffs cause i don't think that a +33% range like the other Howitzer should be good.
The direct fire barrage will always be useless no matter how you tweak it. The B4 turns too slow and its narrow arc of fire (at the direct fire barrage's current range) doesn't help either which is making it almost impossible to target any tanks with it.
The only reason you get this gun is because of its damage. It doesn't sound like you play a lot with the B4, it is actually quite difficult to hit something that is not standing still since you can't predict your opponents random move orders and it takes a while from when you order it to fire until the shell actually lands. That's why you want it to hurt if it hits.
Do you honestly think that anyone will ever touch this commander again if the B4 gets a heavy nerf that you are calling for?
And really, should we treat Cruzzs mod like some kind of benchmark of how we can best balance this game?
Ade, mein liebes Schätzelein
18 Nov 2014, 18:02 PM
#350
Posts: 2053
The point is to use ISU's every game. No need for static artillery when you have an artillery gun on an assault gun. Nerf Counterattack tactics from meta, please.
18 Nov 2014, 18:06 PM
#351
Posts: 403
The point is to use ISU's every game. No need for static artillery when you have an artillery gun on an assault gun. Nerf Counterattack tactics from meta, please.
Seems to be the way to go these days.
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
18 Nov 2014, 18:38 PM
#352
Posts: 967
oh gods of COH2, plz don't nerf our only untouched most holy relic B-4.
Turn your eyes on the rather most obvious imbalance aka Axis's long range infantry squads.
Turn your eyes on the rather most obvious imbalance aka Axis's long range infantry squads.
VoltarDark
Long live to COH2, the king of all team RTS !
Long live to COH2, the king of all team RTS !
18 Nov 2014, 18:47 PM
#353
Posts: 322
Well since JT and ISU got nerfed, There is no reason now to keep the 50% damage on vet 3.
(Yesterday's Ninja changes)
(Yesterday's Ninja changes)
18 Nov 2014, 18:49 PM
#354
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I guess theres little point in discussing when i have in mind 1v1-2v2 scale and you 3v3-4v4
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Nov 2014, 19:14 PM
#355
Posts: 292
Well since JT and ISU got nerfed, There is no reason now to keep the 50% damage on vet 3.
(Yesterday's Ninja changes)
So with the ISU nerf it is a perfect idea to nerf the B4 as well. I like the idea to give the King Tigers free roam. Very good for balance. Maybe we should give Allies the option to play with a CPU since there won't be too many good team mates around.
If you go back to the first page in this long thread you can see that I mentioned King Tigers as well.
I guess theres little point in discussing when i have in mind 1v1-2v2 scale and you 3v3-4v4
To be fair, is the B4 a big problem in 1v1? A nerf to the B4 would be seriously bad in 2v2 as well.
Ade, mein liebes Schätzelein
18 Nov 2014, 19:22 PM
#356
Posts: 923
reply
Sorry I meant range of where you can fire accurately more than total range.
I was just thinking that I've always felt that you have a max-range where you can fire and know that you will hit the target, and any further you shoot and pray to RNGesus or use Precision strike, expending muni.
But with a reduced scatter the range of where you can fire effectively without precision strike will increase. And that will mean you don't have to use the precision strike that often, which in turns means the muni cost becomes negligible.
Disclaimer: Posts made while drunk should not count against this poster.
18 Nov 2014, 19:22 PM
#357
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
To be fair, is the B4 a big problem in 1v1? A nerf to the B4 would be seriously bad in 2v2 as well.
1v1:
No, artillery is less viable on a meta of call in tanks. And you don't have enough targets or manpower to make one.
2v2: viable for allies. Specially against OKW.
Again, the B4 is not meant to just be useful at vet3 nor is it intended role to 1 shot tanks.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Nov 2014, 21:34 PM
#358
Posts: 658
vs okw u dont need to predict ur apponent move,KT and JT slow and big enough to target,secondly how about okw trucks ? hard to predict?!
18 Nov 2014, 21:39 PM
#359
Posts: 2070
vs okw u dont need to predict ur apponent move,KT and JT slow and big enough to target,secondly how about okw trucks ? hard to predict?!
no one is forcing you to place your trucks at the front lines
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
18 Nov 2014, 21:49 PM
#360
Posts: 403
no one is forcing you to place your trucks at the front lines
Nailed it.
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
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