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ISU-152 Overnerfed

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__deleted__
30 Oct 2014, 04:44 AM
#161
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Posts: 1225

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 03:13 AMNinjaWJ


aaaaand Jagdtiger wins

Except it rarely if ever kills shit, especially not an ISU, unless you are facing a beginner/imbecile. The only justification for its cost is that you dont more or less automatically lose the game once the ISU hits the field and successively kills all your vet infantry. Oh wait, he can still do that, he just needs to be a tad more careful and retreat once you have laid in a shot or two with your glorious Jagdtiger. And if you have chosen Ostheer for whatever reason....lets not go there. Meh relic. The boring/broken shit continues. YAAAAWN.

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NinjaWJ
30 Oct 2014, 05:17 AM
#162
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

have faith everyone. they will be changed...SOON(TM)
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2015, 15:19 PMAlexzandvar
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
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MarcoRossolini
30 Oct 2014, 06:44 AM
#165
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Posts: 1042

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 05:39 AM__deleted__
Yawn, kid. Try some 1s, try some 2s, get some experience against meaningful opposition then come back to me. Virgin pontificating about his sexual exploits comes to mind, and no amount of gifs will change that.



This sort of reply pisses me off. Isn't everyone allowed to enjoy a fair and balanced game? No matter what size it is?

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Katitof
30 Oct 2014, 06:48 AM
#166
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 06:44 AMMarcoRossolini



This sort of reply pisses me off. Isn't everyone allowed to enjoy a fair and balanced game? No matter what size it is?



No, not if the factions aren't just recolors and remodels of each other.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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MarcoRossolini
30 Oct 2014, 06:53 AM
#167
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 06:48 AMKatitof


No, not if the factions aren't just recolors and remodels of each other.


Not sure if there's sarcasm or not in there, but I think if it isn't sarcasm then somethings wrong with the game's design and the community if that's correct. 4v4s to 1v1s deserve to balanced to the best possible levels and no game made inherently better than any other.
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WiFiDi
30 Oct 2014, 06:58 AM
#168
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cmon guys lets try and keep it clean. :)

(aka had to invis some posts)
:hyper: Failure is always an option. :crazy:
:D It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!):thumbsup:
:*( Caffeine illegal for WiFi's to ingest in 48 states, 2 colonies, and 1 providences. :hyper:
:lol: To make most awesome thing in universe combine Bears and Nicholas Cage! :lolol:
:P and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!:nahnah:
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Katitof
30 Oct 2014, 06:58 AM
#169
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 06:53 AMMarcoRossolini


Not sure if there's sarcasm or not in there, but I think if it isn't sarcasm then somethings wrong with the game's design and the community if that's correct. 4v4s to 1v1s deserve to balanced to the best possible levels and no game made inherently better than any other.


No sarcasm, just raw experience with about 20 different RTS games across 20 years of my gaming career.
Its impossible to have big games and small games balanced if you don't go for complete mirror factions, because asymmetrical balance pretty much ensures that X in army A will be more effective then Y in army B, given 1v1 situation this might be perfectly balanced, but expanding on number of players(and sometimes resource inflation, like we have in coh2) the same X and Y can be completely overpowered and underpowered and there is nothing you can do about it.

Thats why no RTS game ever makes 3v3 or 4v4 torunaments that are serious-they are simply horribly imbalanced.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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__deleted__
30 Oct 2014, 07:12 AM
#170
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Posts: 1225

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 06:44 AMMarcoRossolini



This sort of reply pisses me off. Isn't everyone allowed to enjoy a fair and balanced game? No matter what size it is?

I find it rather telling that you chose to be offended by my reply here...selective reading? Just FYI, since you apparently accuse me of some pseudo-elitism, I started out playing 4v4s as well, back in COH1, and I am certainly not indifferent to balance complaints pertaining to this game mode. That being said it of course does requires a good deal less individual skill in the manner unique to the COH franchise and bears much more resemblance to "generic" RTS games of the C&C variety, which is why I feel that in doubt it should take a backseat to the requirements of 1s and 2s.

Anyways, I (among many others) have gone to great lengths to detail in this very thread just why I perceive the ISU to be broken - and it is - only to be responded to in a rather puerile fashion by a gentleman who quite frankly lacks the germane experience to comment on the matter. Meh. Have a good one.
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JohnnyB
30 Oct 2014, 07:18 AM
#171
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

Boys, you may have your toys back. ISU and JagdTiger are back. Garden!
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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simpelekees
30 Oct 2014, 09:01 AM
#172
avatar of simpelekees
Patrion 310

Posts: 159

I loved the change. The general idea of a heavyheavyheavy tank to take some extra effort to micro was awesome.
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PanzerErotica
30 Oct 2014, 09:12 AM
#173
avatar of PanzerErotica

Posts: 135

They could just make isu, ele and jagdtiger have permanent hold fire on, in a way they won´t auto attack but when manually told to, they would still track their target etc. Best of both worlds, eh?
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simpelekees
30 Oct 2014, 09:39 AM
#174
avatar of simpelekees
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Posts: 159

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 09:12 AMPanzerErotica
They could just make isu, ele and jagdtiger have permanent hold fire on, in a way they won´t auto attack but when manually told to, they would still track their target etc. Best of both worlds, eh?

hmm. I think the main idea of the change is it won't track it's target. This way it's still easy. Anyway, as far as ISU goes, it still wasn't nerfed sufficiently.
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MarcoRossolini
30 Oct 2014, 09:49 AM
#175
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 07:12 AM__deleted__
I find it rather telling that you chose to be offended by my reply here...selective reading? Just FYI, since you apparently accuse me of some pseudo-elitism, I started out playing 4v4s as well, back in COH1, and I am certainly not indifferent to balance complaints pertaining to this game mode. That being said it of course does requires a good deal less individual skill in the manner unique to the COH franchise and bears much more resemblance to "generic" RTS games of the C&C variety, which is why I feel that in doubt it should take a backseat to the requirements of 1s and 2s.

Anyways, I (among many others) have gone to great lengths to detail in this very thread just why I perceive the ISU to be broken - and it is - only to be responded to in a rather puerile fashion by a gentleman who quite frankly lacks the germane experience to comment on the matter. Meh. Have a good one.



I agree that 4v4s can't be balanced and I agree that the ISU and Jagdtiger need a good going over in the balance department, but to discount a guy's comments on something simply because they prefer a different gamemode to you is silly. I'm not saying 4v4s should be preferenced, but it'd be nice if they were balanced somewhat. Hence the argument that there should be seperate balance for 3v3s and 4v4s compared to 1v1s and 2v2s...
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RandomName
30 Oct 2014, 10:33 AM
#176
avatar of RandomName

Posts: 431

Yay the meta was about to change and the whining starts instanly.... until we have the two I-win-buttons back. How can Relic dare making easy mode unable so you finally have to use your brain?

R.I.P. old 2013 commanders, you could have come back but not with our 4vs4 players Q.Q
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Sorban
30 Oct 2014, 11:20 AM
#177
avatar of Sorban

Posts: 36

It is not only in 4vs4 games. It it also in 2vs2. Every game JT and ISU. really no fun.
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jacko
30 Oct 2014, 12:41 PM
#178
avatar of jacko

Posts: 64

Thank god, ISU added nothing but frustration to the gameplay. Same goes for JT.
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NinjaWJ
30 Oct 2014, 12:54 PM
#179
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

people were complaining that the ISU and Jagdtigers changes were the WRONG changes. I am pretty sure that people agree that they need to be changed, but the proposed changes in the beta were the wrong way to go and i agree with the people.
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2015, 15:19 PMAlexzandvar
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
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voltardark
30 Oct 2014, 13:19 PM
#180
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 976

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2014, 06:58 AMKatitof


No sarcasm, just raw experience with about 20 different RTS games across 20 years of my gaming career.
Its impossible to have big games and small games balanced if you don't go for complete mirror factions, because asymmetrical balance pretty much ensures that X in army A will be more effective then Y in army B, given 1v1 situation this might be perfectly balanced, but expanding on number of players(and sometimes resource inflation, like we have in coh2) the same X and Y can be completely overpowered and underpowered and there is nothing you can do about it.

Thats why no RTS game ever makes 3v3 or 4v4 torunaments that are serious-they are simply horribly imbalanced.


Well i was perfectly happy with the balance in COHO and the latest vcoh patch. so yes it can be balanced. Remember, balanced enough to be fun don't mean perfectly balanced. It mean that players skill should be the dominant factor in winning. But when a faction overall power bring too much impact into the game then the game won't be fun.
VoltarDark

Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
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