Hello guys it is NinjaWJ, your resident Soviet-only player.
I was very excited hearing about the patch. There were many changes to USA, OKW, and Ostheer. However, there were barely any changes to USSR, so I was very dissappointed.
Does this mean Relic believes Soviets are fine, or does it mean the issues need further time to fix?
Obviously, people are up in arms about maxims, snipers, Isu152, call-ins, penal buff, su76 etc. I am not sure why there is not any official word on the progress of soviet changes. It really is frustrating that barely any work was put in on this patch on addressing these issues.
What do you guys think? Are bigger changes on the way?
The Future of the Soviet Faction
11 Sep 2014, 05:07 AM
#1
Posts: 2070
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
11 Sep 2014, 05:13 AM
#2
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
Soviet intended playstyle is cheeze into call-ins or loose.
No other explanation, so people might just as well stop crying about that, because penals and conscripts are clearly not intended to be used in quantities bigger then 1-3 where 3 is already stretching it.
No other explanation, so people might just as well stop crying about that, because penals and conscripts are clearly not intended to be used in quantities bigger then 1-3 where 3 is already stretching it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 Sep 2014, 05:45 AM
#3
Posts: 85
I was soviets only too (mainly 2v2)
I stopped. As it i said before, it's cheese or ... nothing. And cheese means risky game. You can lose everything quickly.
Now my goal is to rape them so bad to make them stop playing soviets too.
When love goes to hate...
I stopped. As it i said before, it's cheese or ... nothing. And cheese means risky game. You can lose everything quickly.
Now my goal is to rape them so bad to make them stop playing soviets too.
When love goes to hate...
11 Sep 2014, 05:59 AM
#4
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
2 months ago I had like 100 and something axis games on 2v2 AT(arena team) and me and my partner decided to switch for soviets. After 20 games we were 500 places above the place we were able to achieve with Axis.That felt disgtusting when thinking at balance, I have to say that. Then, i was away for a week and my partner reached place 180 on the ladder with soviets on random 2v2. That felt even more disgusting and now we are seriously thinking if we should ever play this faction again.
I honestly think that is the explanation for that "why allways 80% of players are searching to play Axis" whining thing.
Speaking of allied, USF faction is not as cheesee.
So, to answer your question, if we speak of faction viability soviets don't need a change. They can easily win with what they got for longtime in the future. If we speak of how exciting to play is this faction.... well...let's just say that if all factions in COH2 would be like that, this game will loose alot of fans.
I honestly think that is the explanation for that "why allways 80% of players are searching to play Axis" whining thing.
Speaking of allied, USF faction is not as cheesee.
So, to answer your question, if we speak of faction viability soviets don't need a change. They can easily win with what they got for longtime in the future. If we speak of how exciting to play is this faction.... well...let's just say that if all factions in COH2 would be like that, this game will loose alot of fans.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
11 Sep 2014, 06:01 AM
#5
2 
Posts: 2181
you always get super high ranked if you mostly win your 20 or so first games, its why the top AT leaderboards have so many teams with barely any games played
11 Sep 2014, 06:05 AM
#6
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
you always get super high ranked if you mostly win your 20 or so first games, its why the top AT leaderboards have so many teams with barely any games played
That's hardly an explanation. Supposing I am on my last 4-5 games. There I should find som opponents that will constantly beat me. Well it didn't happen, which means that this can go on. i exasperate my oponents with that stupid maxim spam. Great strategy, what can I say....
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
11 Sep 2014, 06:26 AM
#7
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
Soviet intended playstyle is cheeze into call-ins or loose.Doesn't that make their design a fail along with USF? USF is all about spamming rifles while Soviet is about cheese to call-ins.
No other explanation, so people might just as well stop crying about that, because penals and conscripts are clearly not intended to be used in quantities bigger then 1-3 where 3 is already stretching it.
_____________________________________________________________________________
11 Sep 2014, 06:41 AM
#8
1 
Posts: 609
I suspect we may yet see some Soviet reworking. This patch appears to be about rebalancing existing infantry play and pushing more tactical play styles. W th so many changes it would make sense to bed this in before trying to open up alternate build orders and play styles within factions.
Evidence for this is the absence of alterations for t70 and su76 and possibly the mysterious removal of the received accuracy for weapons teams hinting at further changes to come.
Evidence for this is the absence of alterations for t70 and su76 and possibly the mysterious removal of the received accuracy for weapons teams hinting at further changes to come.
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11 Sep 2014, 06:46 AM
#9
Posts: 971
Soviets have no future.
Unless Relic decided to change its design once and for all.
A faction that by design only can acces to half of their core units is codemned to rely in call-ins. And as commanders are the way Relic choose to make money with this game, they always have to be more atractive than the core units.
So you have the Soviet Issue: Scarce and low-appealing units with lots of commanders that must make viable the faction.
Btw, seems that developers hate working with that faction, because is hard to explain the absolute disdain to fix units like T70 or SU76 which they're broken and useless for months.
Unless Relic decided to change its design once and for all.
A faction that by design only can acces to half of their core units is codemned to rely in call-ins. And as commanders are the way Relic choose to make money with this game, they always have to be more atractive than the core units.
So you have the Soviet Issue: Scarce and low-appealing units with lots of commanders that must make viable the faction.
Btw, seems that developers hate working with that faction, because is hard to explain the absolute disdain to fix units like T70 or SU76 which they're broken and useless for months.
11 Sep 2014, 12:29 PM
#10
Posts: 2070
A simple price decrease this patch would have helped, but absolutely nohing.
A faction with only halfheir units being used is just terrible design.
A faction with only halfheir units being used is just terrible design.
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
11 Sep 2014, 12:40 PM
#11
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
2 months ago I had like 100 and something axis games on 2v2 AT(arena team) and me and my partner decided to switch for soviets. After 20 games we were 500 places above the place we were able to achieve with Axis.
That isn't actually anything hard to do, considering the sheer difference of allied to axis players. You had to beat a considerably less players in ladder because just a handful still plays allies.
That felt disgtusting when thinking at player faction balance
Fixed.
You are getting high in ladder quickly, because allied player base is just enough to sustain automatch going.
Ever wondered why you need to wait 10 mins for a game as axis and got instant pops as allies?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 Sep 2014, 13:04 PM
#12
Posts: 985 | Subs: 2
Since the axis tanks will always have a role of superiority. Needed a little love to the options AT. Improvements with abilities button, ATnade, zis, ram, etc
11 Sep 2014, 13:05 PM
#13
Posts: 680
Soviet intended playstyle is cheeze into call-ins or loose.
No other explanation, so people might just as well stop crying about that, because penals and conscripts are clearly not intended to be used in quantities bigger then 1-3 where 3 is already stretching it.
The idea of soviets being cheesy is cheesy itself. Imo the disparity between the factions is what makes coh2 a great game. If you play soviets - plz use maxims and snipers. If you want strong base-infantry go USF instead.
11 Sep 2014, 13:15 PM
#14
Posts: 1225
The idea of soviets being cheesy is cheesy itself. Imo the disparity between the factions is what makes coh2 a great game. If you play soviets - plz use maxims and snipers. If you want strong base-infantry go USF instead.
Meh, I disagree, and I have to echo most of whats been said here. If you cheese, Soviets are noticeably stronger than their opponents, I think few people with any serious competitive playtime will disagree here.
However, If you build your playstyle around what historically made up the bulk of the Soviet army (or the Wehrmacht for that matter), meaning your core inf (Conscripts) and medium/light tanks (T70/T34) supported by a wide range of artillery, you will face an uphill struggle. Therefore, quite unsurprisingly, support weapon-into-op-call-ins play absolutely dominates the current meta, and if you ask me, that not only creates the Imho valid perception that Soviets are a cheese-or-die faction, but also makes for sucky games.
Cheesevan spam (2 patches ago) or Maxim/Sniper spam (last patch, in all likelihood current patch too) is just not entertaining. Conscripts should be more than just that one squad I recrew my support weapons with.
11 Sep 2014, 13:29 PM
#15
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
The idea of soviets being cheesy is cheesy itself. Imo the disparity between the factions is what makes coh2 a great game. If you play soviets - plz use maxims and snipers. If you want strong base-infantry go USF instead.
Can't agree with that.
Lazy, bad balance of base units for vanila armies led to this disparities and they are far from good for the game, because you are forced into few certain BOs or loose. New armies do not suffer this problem as much as all their stock units are viable.
But soviets and wehr? Its simply a bad design, especially in soviet case where you either base your strat on a doctrine or loose the game against equal opponent. You have wrong doctrines? You use by default and only a few are viable.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 Sep 2014, 14:00 PM
#16
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
When comapre to the others faction, Soviets have no stock:
AI Infantry (Penals, Cons and Snipers vs Sniper, Gren, PzGrens, Rifleman, Lieutenant, Obersoldaten)
AI Tank (T70 vs Brummbar, Sherman HE, Sturmtiger, Luchs)
AT Infatry (Let's say Cons are AT inf due to AT nades... vs Bazooka, PzGrens/Volks+Schreck)
AT Tank (SU85 vs Jackson, Panther, King Tiger, Sturmiger - again - Jadgpanzer)
When look at stock units, Soviets are the worst faction. None of those (except Snipers) can stand against others factions units.
Even if we include call in inf, Schocks and Guards, they are a way worst than OKW, USF and even Ost basic units.
Only IS2, KV-2 or ISU152 are comparable.
No wonder why we see Maxim or Sniper spam.
Spam spam spam unitl call ins cause stock units suck.
Soviets need to be redesigned. Too many units are useless or too expensive when compare to call in.
AI Infantry (Penals, Cons and Snipers vs Sniper, Gren, PzGrens, Rifleman, Lieutenant, Obersoldaten)
AI Tank (T70 vs Brummbar, Sherman HE, Sturmtiger, Luchs)
AT Infatry (Let's say Cons are AT inf due to AT nades... vs Bazooka, PzGrens/Volks+Schreck)
AT Tank (SU85 vs Jackson, Panther, King Tiger, Sturmiger - again - Jadgpanzer)
When look at stock units, Soviets are the worst faction. None of those (except Snipers) can stand against others factions units.
Even if we include call in inf, Schocks and Guards, they are a way worst than OKW, USF and even Ost basic units.
Only IS2, KV-2 or ISU152 are comparable.
No wonder why we see Maxim or Sniper spam.
Spam spam spam unitl call ins cause stock units suck.
Soviets need to be redesigned. Too many units are useless or too expensive when compare to call in.
11 Sep 2014, 14:01 PM
#17
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
@ Mods, erase this doubled post 
11 Sep 2014, 14:09 PM
#18
Posts: 2070
I hope the developers realize this, the boring and annoying style of Soviet play have been the talk of this forum for awhile now.
can anyone tell me why Ost is considered bad as well? looks like they have a pretty natural tech progression except for complaints with T4.
can anyone tell me why Ost is considered bad as well? looks like they have a pretty natural tech progression except for complaints with T4.
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
11 Sep 2014, 14:09 PM
#19
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
That isn't actually anything hard to do, considering the sheer difference of allied to axis players. You had to beat a considerably less players in ladder because just a handful still plays allies.
Fixed.
You are getting high in ladder quickly, because allied player base is just enough to sustain automatch going.
Ever wondered why you need to wait 10 mins for a game as axis and got instant pops as allies?
Realy? I doubt it. As germans we have to beat far less players to climb in ladder, if we use a different logic. As soviets however, we should beat a larger number of players to climb in ladder. The truth is somewhere at the middle and it still doesn't favor your point of view.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
11 Sep 2014, 14:10 PM
#20
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
Pro tip : Play other factions too, enjoy the game even more.
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
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