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OKW commander evaluation

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2 Sep 2014, 12:50 PM
#1
avatar of gokkel

Posts: 542

Since we could use all commanders now thanks to the free week commander rotations (nice idea from Relic), I would like to give my opinion on all the commanders. I encourage people to make a similar thread for the American faction, and give your own opinion on the OKW commanders here as well.

First I will talk about the individual abilities of each commander and then give a short overall evaluation of the commander. At the end I will rate the commanders against each other.


Special Operations Doctrine:



Radio Silence: It sounds like it could be used well by a good player for an interesting flank, but in reality it will probably not happen very often that you catch someone by surprise with an attack that he would have only noticed if he was visible on the minimap but cannot see otherwise and it having a big impact. Even if you don't see them on the screen either, you can usually still hear vehicles driving or other kinds of sounds. Overall I think this ability is not very good.

Infiltration Tactics: Can be very powerful and is very cheap as well. Very good to clear buildings and good against blobbers and sometimes to flank static weapons. Cannot be used all the time, is fairly predictable by mobile forces and is only powerful on squads without losses, but these seem like fair tradeoffs and the ability is generally still good.

Infrared StG44 Package: Most of the time this feels like a downgrade over the MG34 on Obersoldaten and thus a waste of munition. Turns them into a more short-medium range unit, but it will still not really help them against Shocktroops and for everything else the MG34 seems already good enough or even better.

Artillery Flares: Very useful ability, similar to Scout planes.

Panther Command tank: Even more expensive than the Panther, but the ability on it that is compareable to Mark Vehicle is reason alone to get it over a normal Panther. The aura is nice, however in 1on1s you probably won't have many other vehicles in the same time because of lack of fuel. It also buffs team mates though which makes this tank a lot better here. At veterancy 4 and 5 it improves the aura instead of the tank itself like the normal Panther, so this is something to consider. You also don't really profit from it being a call in in the same way as other call in tanks do, since you will probably want to go for T4 anyway as this commander lacks call in infantry and probably need Obersoldaten for that reason. If the Infrared StG44 was more attractive this would be another reason to go for T4. Overall I still like the Command Panther though.

Overall: This commander seems average to me. It has a few decent abilities, but none that make you feel you want to go for it every time, especially since Infiltration Tactics is also found in Scavenge Doctrine. I think it is also better suited for Team games than for 1on1s.

Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine



MG34 HMG: Gives you a machine gun that you would otherwise not have in your army apart from Kübelwagen. For some people this is essential and reason enough to pick a doctrine like this, others can probably also do without, some will make it dependent on the map or situation. Nothing to complain about here though.

Heavy Fortifications: Not very useful in the current state. The Flak emplacements are expensive for what they do even if they work, but often they will just hit the ground or even hit your own units instead. They can also be very easily decrewed especially by Snipers and potentially even turned against you. Trenches don't seem too useful either, I guess you can consider them for Rocketlaunchers, but you cannot redirect their firing arc inside. Tank traps are ok, but not a lot of people will use them a lot.

Fallschirmjäger: They can be very good, but they are also the most expensive infantry unit in the game. In long range combat they are a bit worse than Obersoldaten, but they don't need certain teching and are usually available earlier. On some maps their ability to spawn in buildings is also a great advantage. They also scale nicely with veterancy and have a Panzerfaust. Personally I like them.

Valiant Assault: Pretty expensive, but it lasts quite a while and the bonuses can be very useful in certain situations. Can be good, but is not something you will use all the time.

Airborne Assault: Pretty good, as you can buy a Fallschirmjäger squad with munition instead of manpower if you have an excess amount of it. The strafing run ability is sometimes good, sometimes bad, as you cannot target the direction. Sadly can only be used on capture points that the enemy owns, but it is still good.

Overall: I think it is one of the better commanders of OKW. Apart from one ability all are useful and the Fallschirmjäger and MG34 can be enough reason to pick this commander.

Breakthrough Doctrine:



Breakthrough Tactics: It seems very situational to me. Surely it can be a big advantage in those close games where you need to decapture that VP to win the game, but personally I tend to forget then that I even have this ability because you probably will not use it otherwise (not blaming the ability for this though :D). I actually haven't even used this ability once yet, and I don't think anyone is ever going to pick this commander just because of this ability.

Sturm Offizier: Not sure about this one, as I do not know the exact buffs it gives to units around. I don't know why this unit doesn't gain veterancy either, as other units like the Major do. I think the drawback of making all your units retreat if the wrong model on the squad dies is too big and rather ridiculous, if at all it should just remove its aura and abilities but not make your units retreat. Currently this means you can only use them well behind your other infantry (preventing you from using the active abilities usually) or to stand next to your Infantry Support guns, which it can also help defend with its force retreat ability. Can also sometimes use it to make that annoying machine gun from the enemy retreat. The combat buff doesn't seem that strong that you couldn't just instead build another regular infantry unit. Personally I am not a big fan of this unit usually.

Panzerfüsiliers: It is a pretty good unit, but it only really starts to shine once you upgrade it with the G43 rifles, which makes it actually rather costly on munition. It is durable and the extended sight with the upgrade is very valuable, and it can be used in bigger numbers than Obersoldaten or Fallschirmjägers, even though those units seem generally stronger. Sadly both the Stielgranate and the Anti-tank grenade bug out more often than they work, which is a big issue. Overall still a good unit, although personally I favour the other doctrinal infantry units.

Assault Barrage: Not completely sure about this one. It costs relatively much and has a very long waiting time before it appears. It also lasts very long and ends with a huge smoke barrage which can be very useful, however I have never seen something die to the artillery itself, it seems more like a denial option. Sometimes though I have seen shells land next to units doing more or less nothing to them... the ability can also be only used on capture points the enemy owns. I guess it can have its uses, but overall I find this ability mediocre at best.

Jagdtiger: Extremely expensive, but also very powerful. Usually I only consider this unit when I have to fight against ISU-152 commanders, as it is the only reliable counter for this unit currently and pretty much forces you to pick this commander a lot of times, especially in team games. It is very suspicible to flanks, so you have to make sure you can defend it with Panzerschrecks, mines or other anti-tank weapons. It is also very easily crew shocked, so you shouldn't overextend it against massed anti-tank weapons.

Overall: The Jagdtiger is reason alone why you will probably have this commander in your selection list in the very least. Apart from that I think it is a solid doctrine, but if it wasn't for the Jagdtiger I would probably not pick it currently as the Luftwaffe and Scavenge doctrines seem more attractive if you need doctrinal infantry.

Elite Armored Doctrine:



Signal Relay: Don't know, never really used it a lot, I guess it can be ok, but nothing you would pick the doctrine for, as Artillery Flares or the "Uhu" will be probably more useful for this purpose.

Emergency Repairs: I haven't used it yet, it seems very situational. If you have a critical damage you most likely need to repair your tank completely with Pioneers anyway, and the drawback on the ability means you cannot really use it on the frontline, so the amount of situations where this tank allows you to rescue a tank that would otherwise be lost seems very limited.

HEAT shells: These seem very weird, as this seems to influence the whole behaviour how the tank shells fly. I am not sure this ability even works properly right now. In theory it would seem ok though, even though situational.

Panzer Commander: I don't find these very good. If you upgrade them, you cannot get the Machine gun upgrade on a tank, which is a big drawback. The increased sight range would seem useful mostly on the Panther. The artillery thing seems too expensive and of limited use.

Veteran P4 call in: Terrible. They are worse than the regular Panzer IV, they only come very late in pairs even though at that stage they already are too weak in most cases, their veterancy that they have is random meaning they can come without any and it is not as good as on regular Panzer IV as they don't get armor upgrades and it will probably not even let you skip a tech because you will want T4 for Obersoldaten as this commander lacks doctrinal infantry.

Overall: In my eyes by far the worst commander of OKW and probably one of the competitors for the award of the worst doctrine in the game. All the abilities are either useless or incredibly situational and even then of limited use. No reason to pick this commander.

Fortifications Doctrine:



MG34 HMG: Same as in Luftwaffe.

Heavy Fortifications: Same as in Luftwaffe.

Field Defenses: It gives you bunkers and S-mines. The bunkers can be nice, it overlaps a bit in role with Flak emplacements but since Flak emplacements are crap right now it has its use. For some reason they don't let you upgrade them to medic or reinforcement bunkers like in Ostheer though. S-mines overlap a bit with regular mines and personally I would rather like to have Teller mines to supplement the OKW army, but some people love the S-mines and I guess it is a matter of personal preference.

Pak 43: Very situational, on some maps it can still be useful, but overall I think it is overnerfed in range and too vulnerable for the price. I also think it comes a bit too late in the current state. However, if you manage to just kill 1 or 2 tanks, it is probably still worth it.

Zeroing Artillery: A bit weird because it gets better if you see the target area, however you don't want to stand too close to it because you don't want to get hit by it, which makes it a bit hard to use. It also tells your enemy exactly about the radius, so your enemy knows exactly where he can go and where not. It is also extremely expensive. If your enemy stays in it it can be devastating, but overall I find this very situational and probably too expensive unless you don't know what to do with your munition anyway.

Overall: It overlaps a bit with the Luftwaffe doctrine and other abilities in the game, but there can be situations where this commander is useful. If you like to play defensively and maybe attempt something like a tech rush, this commander may be interesting. In the end a matter of preference.

Scavenge Doctrine



Thorough Salvage: Additional ressources on salvage can be very useful, however the increased salvage duration can be a massive drawback, as you may not have the time anymore to salvage things in the front line before the enemy comes back (I like to salvage decrewed enemy support weapons sometimes before he comes back). Often I find this ability does more harm than good.

Jäger Light Infantry: Very powerful and probably the main reason to pick this commander. They are priced between cheap and elite infantry, but they fight very well and have extended vision which is nice. Booby traps can be also quite nice, they can spawn in buildings, salvage and sprint. They sadly don't have grenades or anti-tank snares though, and they cannot pick up weapons or even medkits which is probably a bug. Overall very good though.

Infiltration Tactics: See Special Operations Doctrine. Have to add though that these don't apply to Jäger Light Infantry which makes it a bit worse, as you probably will rely a bit less on Volksgrenadiere.

Ostwind: It can be useful, but personally I am not a big fan of the Ostwind in general, as I think it is too expensive for what it does in comparison to other alternatives like the Luchs. However you might skip T4 with this doctrine, which means you can use the Ostwind instead of the Luchs.

Howitzer Barrage: Very powerful if you have lots of munition. In comparison to the other artillery call ins that OKW has it is definitely the best in my opinion. On the other hand enemies will probably not just stand around in it all the time. According to other people it is currently broken against American base buildings, so this probably will be fixed eventually, personally I have never tried it out like that yet as this seems lame.

Overall: This is surely one of the stronger doctrines again already because of the Jäger Light Infantry. It overlaps in role a bit with the Luftwaffe doctrine and I think there are arguments for both doctrines, in the end it is a matter of preference (or money; the Scavenger Doctrine has to be bought with money if you don't have luck with war spoils).



Personal overall Ranking



1. Breakthrough
2. Luftwaffe
*. Scavenge
4. Fortifications
*. Special Operations
6. Elite Armor


I put Breakthrough at number one because I feel it is currently mandatory to equip it because of the ISU-152 meta, otherwise it would be probably ranked lower.

Luftwaffe and Scavenge Doctrine are a matter of preference in my opinion and on a similar level, you could also reverse the order of the two easily.

Fortifications doctrine can be interesting for defensive players or when you find you need a Pak43 because you have no fuel to defend from tanks (although I find you mostly lose in these games anyway), while Special Operations has Infiltration grenades "for the poor" among us and good potential for team games if at least one guy picks it.

Elite Armor is just plain wrong.
2 Sep 2014, 13:12 PM
#2
avatar of MrCinderella

Posts: 8

I think the elite armor commander is not that bad when you fight in a 4v4 and focus on tanks. But I agree it's useless most of the time ;)
2 Sep 2014, 19:20 PM
#3
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 507

Currently rank ~2000 with OKW ...

So maybe this is just a level of play difference, but isn't breakthrough actually really good? Pfuses with the SO have incredible long range killing power even without the upgrade. Keeping the SO in the pack removes the retreat problem.

Again a possible level difference, but to me infiltration grenades is better than "generally pretty good." Compared to the 30 MU volks grenade, which often does almost nothing, these can completely turn an engagement around or even wipe a squad that's injured. The other day I attacked a house with an LT and a riflesquad, double infiltration naded it, and for 20 MU both squads, previously healthy and full, were wiped. RNGesus? Maybe. Some bad play involved? Probably.

Do you have to wait to use it? Sure, but that's true of normal grenades. I'd say if anything it's more spammable than the 30 MU grenade despite being several times more effective. It's weaker with a wounded squad, but then again, how often do you wanna nade someone with a half dead squad anyway? That's asking for a squad wipe.

2 Sep 2014, 20:06 PM
#4
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Nice work,thinking about doing one with ostheer since many of its commanders are redundant.
2 Sep 2014, 20:10 PM
#5
avatar of gokkel

Posts: 542

Currently rank ~2000 with OKW ...

So maybe this is just a level of play difference, but isn't breakthrough actually really good? Pfuses with the SO have incredible long range killing power even without the upgrade. Keeping the SO in the pack removes the retreat problem.

Again a possible level difference, but to me infiltration grenades is better than "generally pretty good." Compared to the 30 MU volks grenade, which often does almost nothing, these can completely turn an engagement around or even wipe a squad that's injured. The other day I attacked a house with an LT and a riflesquad, double infiltration naded it, and for 20 MU both squads, previously healthy and full, were wiped. RNGesus? Maybe. Some bad play involved? Probably.

Do you have to wait to use it? Sure, but that's true of normal grenades. I'd say if anything it's more spammable than the 30 MU grenade despite being several times more effective. It's weaker with a wounded squad, but then again, how often do you wanna nade someone with a half dead squad anyway? That's asking for a squad wipe.



Breakthrough in total is as I say pretty solid, but I think if you take away the Jagdtiger it will be overshadowed by the Scavenge and Luftwaffe commanders, as I rate them higher if you just look for doctrinal infantry. So for me the commander mostly stands and falls with the Jagdtiger. If you want or need the Jagdtiger, it is great, if not, it is still a completely valid choice but there may be slightly better options.

I am not sure what you mean with "keeping the SO in the pack", you mean clumped together with the Panzerfüsiliers? I found that good players tend to just focus fire on the Sturmoffizier if it is too far in the front, because once the Offizier dies he wins the engagement. That is why if I use him to walk with my other troops I feel obligated to keep him in the back.

Well regarding infiltration grenades I think maybe I just didn't write enthusiastically enough, I won't argue they are amazing when they work :) I just find it important to also mention the drawbacks, because there are already enough people who complain this ability is too strong (I also think it is too cheap for what it does) without mentioning the drawbacks, which I do actually find meaningful. The cooldown only recharges out of combat, and I am still not sure if there is not a bug involved that sometimes resets the cooldown so that a squad never recharges completely. The animation for the ability is also so easy to spot that if the enemy watches he will move his squad away if he can. And it also means you cannot simply charge up with a single Volksgrenadier squad because you lose one grenade per model lost before or during the animation. In some situations the good old standard grenade can be sometimes actually better. Of course all these drawbacks don't change the fact that the ability is very powerful, as I mentioned it is a fair tradeoff.
2 Sep 2014, 20:42 PM
#6
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1593

Scavenge, Breakthrough (Panzerfusiliers FTW) and Luftwaffe are the best for 1v1s and 2v2s.

Having an HMG + Elite infantry is perfect addition to the OKW unit pool.
Panzerfusiliers are one of the best frontline infantry with G-43s and vet.
Scavenge is just perfect....salvaging more fuel and ammo, having elite light infantry and AI tank is very powerfull.

Special Operations is fine, but you have to rely on your stock infantry and has the very pricy panther.
2 Sep 2014, 21:00 PM
#7
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1579 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2014, 12:50 PMgokkel


Panzerfüsiliers: It is a pretty good unit, but it only really starts to shine once you upgrade it with the G43 rifles, which makes it actually rather costly on munition. It is durable and the extended sight with the upgrade is very valuable, and it can be used in bigger numbers than Obersoldaten or Fallschirmjägers, even though those units seem generally stronger. Sadly both the Stielgranate and the Anti-tank grenade bug out more often than they work, which is a big issue. Overall still a good unit, although personally I favour the other doctrinal infantry units.







These units are not just 'pretty good'. They are god mode. Do not underestimate the power of three of these squads with G43's. They counter all Soviet infantry, including singular shocktroop squads. Rifles with LMG's put up a pretty decent fight but ultimate they have 5 units, Panzerfusiliers have six. 2CP call in with fast dispatch time, cheap. Early game advantage and stay relevant throughout the game.
2 Sep 2014, 21:09 PM
#8
avatar of gokkel

Posts: 542

@Napalm: "Pretty good" in my vocabulary is actually meant to be a nice compliment :P
2 Sep 2014, 22:01 PM
#9
avatar of HFSzsoci

Posts: 119

Panzerfüsiliers are good, but Jager light, better.
2 Sep 2014, 22:19 PM
#10
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

In my opinion

For 1vs1

Luftwaffe == Scavenge > Fortification > Breakthrough > Special Ops > Elite Armor

For team games

Breakthrough > Fortification > Special Ops > Scavenge > Luftwaffe > Elite Armor
2 Sep 2014, 22:28 PM
#11
avatar of luvnest
Strategist Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1086 | Subs: 20

In my opinion the Special Operations Doctrine is just badly disigned. The Nightvision STG44 upgrade is just over the top, to make use of it you should tech up to T4. But you already have a Panther Command Tank call in and at the same time the regular tanker from your tech.
Dont like it.
5 Sep 2014, 23:21 PM
#12
avatar of Hogman512

Posts: 156

I have to admit, the breakthrough tactics rock. They allow you to decap a point in seconds. Great if you have 2/3 squads mount an attack on a number of locations at the same time. It also gives your opponent much less time to react, meaning they cannot fire off map party at that point to force a retreat or squad wipe.

The Panther command tank, agreed, is only really useful in team games. I like it and it's good to keep alive as the bonuses it provides are worth it and the aura gets bigger with vet.

The IR STG44s are awesome too, it just means that you need to treat the obers like shock troops. Put those obers up close to something and it's squad wipe. Contrary to popular belief they easily beat shocks too. The nice thing about this weapon is, it ignores cover. So waltz up to a unit in a building with these, or something in green cover, it it makes no difference, they will get destroyed extremely quickly. IMO Obers with these guns become German shock troops. Because of the insane amount of damage they deal, they also excel at squad wiping stuff on retreat.
6 Sep 2014, 03:26 AM
#13
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 798

The problem I find with late game Obers with Stg44 is that the 4 man squad and mediocre health means that at least 1 of the squad dies before they get anywhere. It doesn't help that by the time I get them out in the game anyway the Allies usually have at least one tank out.
17 Feb 2018, 18:58 PM
#14
avatar of thomasagray

Posts: 135

Permanently Banned
As of now, a few changes for some of the doctrines:

Thorough Salvage: instead of producing extra fuel, this provides same fuel but extra munitions. For scavenge doctrine, this actually helps to fund for their artillery barrage.

Elite Armor Doctrine: Veteran Panzer IV is replaced with Sturmtiger, which is arguably a major improvement. The Sturmtiger is a heavy hit-and-run assault gun that fires a single round that can instantly kill medium tanks in one hit and obliterate weaker units in a wide area. After firing, return to safety to manually reload, since the crew can be killed during reload.

MG34 Team: this unit is now a nondoctrinal unit that requires one command post set up. Lufwaffe Ground forces instead receive recon overflight and Fortifications receive LefH.18 Artillery.
17 Feb 2018, 19:40 PM
#15
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1592 | Subs: 1

As of now, a few changes for some of the doctrines:

Thorough Salvage: instead of producing extra fuel, this provides same fuel but extra munitions. For scavenge doctrine, this actually helps to fund for their artillery barrage.

Elite Armor Doctrine: Veteran Panzer IV is replaced with Sturmtiger, which is arguably a major improvement. The Sturmtiger is a heavy hit-and-run assault gun that fires a single round that can instantly kill medium tanks in one hit and obliterate weaker units in a wide area. After firing, return to safety to manually reload, since the crew can be killed during reload.

MG34 Team: this unit is now a nondoctrinal unit that requires one command post set up. Lufwaffe Ground forces instead receive recon overflight and Fortifications receive LefH.18 Artillery.


Let's not necro threads from 2014 with information that the average player already knows, kthxbye! :thumb:
17 Feb 2018, 22:07 PM
#16
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 17

When someone chooses Elite Armor, my playing partner and I just say "they went Strumtiger" because that's the only real reason to choose the commander. The HEAT shells are actually pretty handy, but also kind of overkill for the OKW.
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