I made similar topic in soviets strategies cause I had no idea how to counter 3vet grens with MG (still they are pain in the ass...)
This commander is OP and no doubt about that.
Just imagine soviet commander with:
Guards, 120mm mortar, self repair, mark target and IS2/KV2/ISU152.
Well, "soviet elite troops" could be just like that...
Give me such commander and I wont complain about troops training.
Who thinks troop training is fair?
30 Apr 2014, 22:24 PM
#41
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
30 Apr 2014, 23:01 PM
#42
2 
Posts: 2181
I made similar topic in soviets strategies cause I had no idea how to counter 3vet grens with MG (still they are pain in the ass...)
This commander is OP and no doubt about that.
Just imagine soviet commander with:
Guards, 120mm mortar, self repair, mark target and IS2/KV2/ISU152.
Well, "soviet elite troops" could be just like that...
Give me such commander and I wont complain about troops training.
There is 1 commander which has 4 of those and one that has 3 of those, I think you can't complain too much
I find troop training very good but if I see it im always glad the opponent chose it because it means no offmap strikes and the tiger ace is overpriced imo (coming from an 2v2 perspective)
1 May 2014, 01:25 AM
#43
Posts: 503
Permanently BannedYou take advantage of extra units experience, but is also losing fuel problem, just always sacrificing to have more tanks doing it.
1 May 2014, 01:49 AM
#44
Posts: 612
You take advantage of extra units experience, but is also losing fuel problem, just always sacrificing to have more tanks doing it.
you need to elaborate more, are you saying that Troop training's fuel cost off sets the advantages by delaying tanks?
1 May 2014, 03:49 AM
#45
Posts: 503
Permanently BannedSometimes I do not know what to choose, train or just catch tank, first I always get the tank, but the delay in a second tank, it is sometimes lethal. (For me a tank is better than 3~4 trainners).
Maybe it would be interesting to have 10muni at least spent on training.
For balance.
Maybe it would be interesting to have 10muni at least spent on training.
For balance.
1 May 2014, 05:34 AM
#46
5 
Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2
I'm not going to vote because I don't like the options given. That being said, I feel like the troop training ability, when judged on its own, is fine. It has its uses, but it is risky, as losing a unit you have invested fuel to vet is a big loss. Especially considering that units gain vet rather quickly, and by the 10-12 minute mark most of my basic infantry is already vet 2, and well used scout cars and other light vehicles already have vet of their own.
The issue I have is the placement in a commander tree that is brimming with useful abilities. Every single ability in the ET commander is above average. Each one on its own is fine, but having all of them in the same commander is overkill.
I don't know if the ability really fits into the game all that well (I have the same issue with soviet industry, and other commanders that change the basic functions of the game) but as far as balance is concerned I don't have an issue with it. I never use it because I would rather spend the fuel on teching, and let my units gain vet on their own.
The issue I have is the placement in a commander tree that is brimming with useful abilities. Every single ability in the ET commander is above average. Each one on its own is fine, but having all of them in the same commander is overkill.
I don't know if the ability really fits into the game all that well (I have the same issue with soviet industry, and other commanders that change the basic functions of the game) but as far as balance is concerned I don't have an issue with it. I never use it because I would rather spend the fuel on teching, and let my units gain vet on their own.
1 May 2014, 07:02 AM
#47
Posts: 126
My issues with the p2w commander which is heavily used by top 10 ladder players. So you know it's the most broken and abused piece of horse tripe in the game.
1. You don't earn your experience. You didn't risk your unit to get vet. You didn't give the enemy vet by fighting them. Most of the time the resources to buy the vet were a result of pio or gren spam early map pushes.
2. The biggest douche bags vet the mortar. Why because the only risk with using troop training is a squad wipe. If you train up support units or armor you can escape .
3. Vet units kill better and get more vet easily.
4. Vet units evade shots, harder to squad wipe
5. Vet units get special abilities way before they should.
6. Vet units give you an edge that allows you to take or hold resource you normally would not get.
Like I said watch high level players almost all of them have the doctorine and abuse the shit out of it. So you know it is p2w.
1. You don't earn your experience. You didn't risk your unit to get vet. You didn't give the enemy vet by fighting them. Most of the time the resources to buy the vet were a result of pio or gren spam early map pushes.
2. The biggest douche bags vet the mortar. Why because the only risk with using troop training is a squad wipe. If you train up support units or armor you can escape .
3. Vet units kill better and get more vet easily.
4. Vet units evade shots, harder to squad wipe
5. Vet units get special abilities way before they should.
6. Vet units give you an edge that allows you to take or hold resource you normally would not get.
Like I said watch high level players almost all of them have the doctorine and abuse the shit out of it. So you know it is p2w.
1 May 2014, 07:40 AM
#48
Posts: 747
I think it needs a CP change to 6 CP. A vet 3 mortar or a vet 2 sniper is pure murder against soviet tier 2 in the early-mid game.
I think 6cp is a little too harsh. 3cp would be sufficient imo.
1 May 2014, 07:47 AM
#49
Posts: 1130
My issues with the p2w commander which is heavily used by top 10 ladder players. So you know it's the most broken and abused piece of horse tripe in the game.
1. You don't earn your experience. You didn't risk your unit to get vet. You didn't give the enemy vet by fighting them. Most of the time the resources to buy the vet were a result of pio or gren spam early map pushes.
2. The biggest douche bags vet the mortar. Why because the only risk with using troop training is a squad wipe. If you train up support units or armor you can escape .
3. Vet units kill better and get more vet easily.
4. Vet units evade shots, harder to squad wipe
5. Vet units get special abilities way before they should.
6. Vet units give you an edge that allows you to take or hold resource you normally would not get.
Like I said watch high level players almost all of them have the doctorine and abuse the shit out of it. So you know it is p2w.
Not only are you wrong about what vet does for most of the time currently the entire elite doctrine is far from meta as most abilities have rather dubious value. The mechanised doctrine is now meta and is often seen in the top matches as it is well balanced versatile and can handle anything the soviets throw at it while having very few weaknesses.
horrida flamma bella
1 May 2014, 07:59 AM
#50
10 Posts: 159
Huh? Ofc the individual "troop training" ability is a problem. In COH2 both factions earn veterancy, and veterancy is extremely powerful. That is a core game mechanic. It's a big part of "every battle tells a story," as the veterancy of each unit represents its actions in battle. All of this is what is wonderful about the game.
Elite Troops breaks it all. You pay money for a commander, and suddenly you can "buy" vetted units long before they should ever be on the battlefield, creating completely imba fights right at the start of the game. Each one of those "elite troops vetted" units is actually robbed of it's "story"... it didn't fight to earn its vet. It has no story. Its vet came from p2w DLC. The whole thought of it just makes you want to vomit. No longer can you tell units that earned their vet apart from units that simply converted a resource.
Would I as a caster want to name a tripvet Gren that has 0 kills and follow him around the battlefield? Um, no, I wouldn't. Conversely, watching that tripvet Gren fight makes me want to uninstall the game.
may i remind you that wehrmacht have always had to buy vet? coh1?
1 May 2014, 08:22 AM
#51
Posts: 1159
And the bought vet in coh1 was not exactly balanced either.
Most games it was a case of can the american outplay the german enough early on before too much vet kicks in.
Relic said they wanted all stages of early mid and late game to be more balanced in coh2, rather than a huge shift like in coh1.
Most games it was a case of can the american outplay the german enough early on before too much vet kicks in.
Relic said they wanted all stages of early mid and late game to be more balanced in coh2, rather than a huge shift like in coh1.
1 May 2014, 09:03 AM
#52
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
Doesn't matter if we like it or not.
Its in and its not going anywhere.
All that can be done is beat the commander as a whole with the nerf stick until it becomes forgotten(soviet industry outside of 4v4 anyone?).
Its in and its not going anywhere.
All that can be done is beat the commander as a whole with the nerf stick until it becomes forgotten(soviet industry outside of 4v4 anyone?).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
1 May 2014, 09:28 AM
#53
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
There is 1 commander which has 4 of those and one that has 3 of those, I think you can't complain too much
I find troop training very good but if I see it im always glad the opponent chose it because it means no offmap strikes and the tiger ace is overpriced imo (coming from an 2v2 perspective)
Yep, there is one, but using T34/85 against Panthers, Tigers or Tiger ACE is not what I want (once I killed Tiger Ace with T34/85 but I needed TM 35 hit, four T35/85 nad mark target)
Another commader has 2 abilities useless. Covering AT gun is useless if it shoots to inf and airstrike is waste of ammo.
1 May 2014, 09:38 AM
#54
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
Yep, there is one, but using T34/85 against Panthers, Tigers or Tiger ACE is not what I want (once I killed Tiger Ace with T34/85 but I needed TM 35 hit, four T35/85 nad mark target)
Another commader has 2 abilities useless. Covering AT gun is useless if it shoots to inf and airstrike is waste of ammo.
You do realize you have hold fire button on AT guns in camo?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
1 May 2014, 09:55 AM
#55
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Well... I go for T1 only so I dont use AT guns often... But if I do its usually not combined with covering ability 
1 May 2014, 14:44 PM
#56
Posts: 612
may i remind you that wehrmacht have always had to buy vet? coh1?
May I remind you that it wasnt cool then, but it was a little more fair. You never got instant vet three guys until you teched through the whole tree and purchased three linear upgrades. Now you can do it at 2:30 which horribly scews combat situations in favor of Ostheer. My example is that after 40+ minutes a vet three conscript squad can kill vet 0 panzer grens, which by a cost and combat powers analysis on base stats should never happen. Only instead of earning the veterancy through game play, you can just upgrade a unit early on and slaughter Soviet infantry.
1 May 2014, 15:19 PM
#57
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
Also vCoH german vet didn't provided any offensive bonuses, it was 100% defensive.
Thou I do miss vet1 self regen, that thing was great.
I'd much rather see vet1 passive bonus added for infantry instead of medkits and loltrip mines.
Thou I do miss vet1 self regen, that thing was great.
I'd much rather see vet1 passive bonus added for infantry instead of medkits and loltrip mines.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
1 May 2014, 20:00 PM
#58
Posts: 126
Most people who talk about buying vet in coh1 never even played the game. You had to have vet 2 on your grenadiers to equal the allied doctrinal troops.
If you had vet 3 infantry you already won the game or you were really stupid and did not tech up and lost the game because all you did was buy vet.
Let me also remind you that the Germans did not get any vet from killing units. Unlike p2w commander where you buy and receive extra vet from fighting.
If you could only buy vet then maybe the doctrine would balance but as of now some bodies daddy runs relic and he was allowed to make his uber p2w commander and have it in the game. And now every player who needs a crutch to help them win games has it in their lineup.
No place for this commander in auto match.
If you had vet 3 infantry you already won the game or you were really stupid and did not tech up and lost the game because all you did was buy vet.
Let me also remind you that the Germans did not get any vet from killing units. Unlike p2w commander where you buy and receive extra vet from fighting.
If you could only buy vet then maybe the doctrine would balance but as of now some bodies daddy runs relic and he was allowed to make his uber p2w commander and have it in the game. And now every player who needs a crutch to help them win games has it in their lineup.
No place for this commander in auto match.
1 May 2014, 22:31 PM
#59
Posts: 37
I find the ability payforvet actually okay, for the price of fuel I might as well buy a scout car and the rest is not particularly op
if I'm honest, the commander makes too damn much fun (not necessarily because of the p4vet - I use anyway just for 1-3 units ... do not play the decisive role). The problem I see more in the fact that there is hardly equivalent Commander on both sides.
My opinion, improve current Commanders or (free) new!
(a good example would be the lend lease commander & Spearhead Doctrine, where I also use each ability)
if I'm honest, the commander makes too damn much fun (not necessarily because of the p4vet - I use anyway just for 1-3 units ... do not play the decisive role). The problem I see more in the fact that there is hardly equivalent Commander on both sides.
My opinion, improve current Commanders or (free) new!
(a good example would be the lend lease commander & Spearhead Doctrine, where I also use each ability)
2 May 2014, 03:53 AM
#60
Posts: 308
L2P, if i can do it anyone can do it
Please don't become a **** poster serious...
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