What is up with the pzkpfw V Panther ?
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21 Jan 2014, 15:17 PM
#1
Posts: 70
Wy is the panther that cheap in concideration to his skill? I mean yesterday i played the germans (i normaly only play sov.) i get a panther then i hit a mine. 80 % of Hp left then an Iosef stalin 2 arrives and met my panther. Then my panther destroyes the Is-2 in not a minute.... HOW CAN IT BE ????? Panther costs only 145 fuel and Is-2 240 !! More than Tiger but the Is-2 is such a kind of rubbish you only can crush cars on a jung yard with this " Heavy Tank " So pls relict or sega who ever make the Is-2 more strong ... sometimes the Is-2 only bounces on the Pather ... not cool. Fuck of grammar !!
21 Jan 2014, 15:35 PM
#2
Posts: 419
Give Germans a tank with the range and punch of Su 85s and Relic can make the panther expensive as you want, even double. The panther has to do suicide rushes to compete vs the cheaper long range,out of sight su 85 hordes. 3 su 85s kill 2 panthers so quick it ain't even funny, unless you snuck into their flanks in the first place.
21 Jan 2014, 15:36 PM
#3
Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8
What you say is mathematically not possible.
Or you should start playing some lottery asap.
Or you should start playing some lottery asap.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 Jan 2014, 15:43 PM
#4
Posts: 157
Was your panther vet 2? if so it's upped frontal armor will bounce shots from an IS2 pretty consistently.
21 Jan 2014, 15:47 PM
#5
Posts: 419
....? 3 su 85s focus firing on one panther will eat it alive then work on the second just as easy. Long before 2 can do enough damage to one Su 85. Also is2 can be beat by a panther but a panther can do very little/no vs inf. Give panther is2 anti infantry ability and you can have your is2 anti tank ability.
21 Jan 2014, 16:08 PM
#6
Posts: 542
A mine does 200 damage if I am not wrong. Since an IS-2 does 240 damage per shot, it will need 4 shots to destroy a full health panther (4x240 = 960, which is exactly the health of a Panther).
Since the mine took down only 200 health, you still need to shoot 4 times with an IS-2, since after the first three hits it still has 40 health left. So unless you can actually make use of the other effect, the damaged engine of the Panther, it won't have any consequence in this situation.
Other than that, both tanks should be able to win depending on who is luckier if both shoot from the front. Usually the IS2 should have the better odds though. Especially if you can shoot it in the back armor, since the Panther will be always penetrated from the back armor, whereas the same cannot be said the other way around.
Since the mine took down only 200 health, you still need to shoot 4 times with an IS-2, since after the first three hits it still has 40 health left. So unless you can actually make use of the other effect, the damaged engine of the Panther, it won't have any consequence in this situation.
Other than that, both tanks should be able to win depending on who is luckier if both shoot from the front. Usually the IS2 should have the better odds though. Especially if you can shoot it in the back armor, since the Panther will be always penetrated from the back armor, whereas the same cannot be said the other way around.
21 Jan 2014, 16:09 PM
#7
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
What you say is mathematically not possible.
Or you should start playing some lottery asap.
You need to look at the numbers. It's very much mathematically possible. And it's not even that unlikely to happen.
At Chris: The Panther is a tank destroyer with a turret. It's very good at killing tanks, but it's one of the worst tanks for killing infantry.
21 Jan 2014, 16:21 PM
#8
Posts: 70
Was your panther vet 2? if so it's upped frontal armor will bounce shots from an IS2 pretty consistently.No he wasn´t he comes fresh on the field
21 Jan 2014, 16:22 PM
#9
Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8
You need to look at the numbers. It's very much mathematically possible. And it's not even that unlikely to happen.
At Chris: The Panther is a tank destroyer with a turret. It's very good at killing tanks, but it's one of the worst tanks for killing infantry.
I'm speaking from experience and basing it on stats.
IS-2 can handle healthy panther, it will loose most health, but will win.
There is no way to loose IS-2 to a panther that drove over a mine, unless soviet player was most unlucky player in CoH2.
Healthy vet1 panther will eat IS-2 alife, but damaged with engine damage simply can not, unless IS is weak already.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 Jan 2014, 16:23 PM
#10
Posts: 70
....? 3 su 85s focus firing on one panther will eat it alive then work on the second just as easy. Long before 2 can do enough damage to one Su 85. Also is2 can be beat by a panther but a panther can do very little/no vs inf. Give panther is2 anti infantry ability and you can have your is2 anti tank ability.
Yea i Need 3 su in an effective position this is 345 fuel for 145 ... but su is effective VS Panther but i talking about Is 2
21 Jan 2014, 16:25 PM
#11
Posts: 70
....? 3 su 85s focus firing on one panther will eat it alive then work on the second just as easy. Long before 2 can do enough damage to one Su 85. Also is2 can be beat by a panther but a panther can do very little/no vs inf. Give panther is2 anti infantry ability and you can have your is2 anti tank ability.
Yea i Need 3 su in an effective position this is 345 fuel for 145 ... but su is effective VS Panther but i talking about Is 2
21 Jan 2014, 16:49 PM
#12
Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4
Chris, the IS-2 is primarily an AI tank, it fires slowly but has a large area of effect. It does not have good penetration for its cost, and the slow rate of fire further hinders it against other tanks. If you're trying to use your IS-2 as a hard-counter to Panthers, you should rethink your approach because Panthers are made to kill other tanks.
You wouldn't expect a Brummbar (AI tank) to beat an Su-85 (AT tank) despite the Brummbar costing more. The cost of the tank does not necessarily correlate to how good it is against other tanks, you really have to look at that tank's role.
Panther = AT tank, so don't try and fight it with other tanks, except for SU-85s because SU-85s beat everything except Elefants.
IS-2 = AI tank, use it to fight off infantry and AT guns, not other tanks.
You wouldn't expect a Brummbar (AI tank) to beat an Su-85 (AT tank) despite the Brummbar costing more. The cost of the tank does not necessarily correlate to how good it is against other tanks, you really have to look at that tank's role.
Panther = AT tank, so don't try and fight it with other tanks, except for SU-85s because SU-85s beat everything except Elefants.
IS-2 = AI tank, use it to fight off infantry and AT guns, not other tanks.
21 Jan 2014, 17:12 PM
#13
Posts: 157
I wouldn't go as far as to say the IS-2 primarily AI, I'd say it's a generalist heavy tank. It can go toe to toe with a Panther or Tiger and sometimes come out on top, but with much more powerful anti infantry capabilities than either of those. It also dominates all German medium armor.
21 Jan 2014, 17:23 PM
#14
Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4
I wouldn't go as far as to say the IS-2 primarily AI, I'd say it's a generalist heavy tank. It can go toe to toe with a Panther or Tiger and sometimes come out on top, but with much more powerful anti infantry capabilities than either of those. It also dominates all German medium armor.
Hm, I may have been unclear in my initial post.
Basically, from my experience, the IS-2 is really, really good against infantry while only decent (for its cost) against enemy tanks, which is why I tend to view it as being primarily an AI tank. It just lacks the penetration/rate of fire to be truly effective against anything heavier than a Pz4.
I was just trying to point out/inform the OP that he shouldn't really expect an IS-2 to dominate a Panther, since Panthers are supposed to be tank killers. Sure the IS-2 has a decent chance to beat a lone Panther simply because the IS-2 is so much heavier/more expensive, but more than one Panther or a supported Panther is probably a losing battle for the IS-2.
21 Jan 2014, 17:37 PM
#15
Posts: 2561
The panther really needs to be rebalanced. Almost all teamgames end with germans just spamming them non-stop and there really isn't anything the soviets can do even though it's such an obvious and cheap tactic.
It really needs a more effective counter.
It really needs a more effective counter.
21 Jan 2014, 17:55 PM
#16
Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8
The panther really needs to be rebalanced. Almost all teamgames end with germans just spamming them non-stop and there really isn't anything the soviets can do even though it's such an obvious and cheap tactic.
It really needs a more effective counter.
That is because soviets have nothing like PaK43 to keep overly spammed armor in check.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 Jan 2014, 18:06 PM
#17
Posts: 2779
That is because soviets have nothing like PaK43 to keep overly spammed armor in check.
God forbid you getting SU85?
21 Jan 2014, 18:09 PM
#18
4 
Posts: 951
The panther really needs to be rebalanced. Almost all teamgames end with germans just spamming them non-stop and there really isn't anything the soviets can do even though it's such an obvious and cheap tactic.
It really needs a more effective counter.
This. Germans spam them then vet them (Elite Commander) to vet 1. This allows them to switch on their lolocopter turbo drive, swarm through ZiS / SU-85 positions and go apeshit killing everything.
Every team game I play ends up doing this. I make SU85s, lay demo charges and mines and it still doesn't stop the Panther horde. I haven't seen a PIV for a while now.
I think a slight fuel hike for the panther would be fair, it really is a great breakthrough tank even if it's AI isn't all that. Against AT guns and vehicles it is superb.
21 Jan 2014, 18:18 PM
#19
Posts: 598
the problem here is not balance it's RNG!!!!!!!
I've had times when the panther doesn't penetrate. You got lucky just accept it.
I've had times when the panther doesn't penetrate. You got lucky just accept it.
21 Jan 2014, 18:25 PM
#20
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
I agree that panthers are heavily used, especially late in team games, but the reason for this is the amount of Soviet armor and range of SU-85's. Unlike vCOH where infantry scaled deep into the late game, in COH2 infantry have a hard time doing so. Therefore, Soviets focus more and more on tanks and Ost counters with panthers as it should. Also, the long range of the SU85 in team games negates the PIV as soon as it appears, since the first SU85 will also be on the field. An Ost player has to rely on panthers to maintain field presence. I am not shouting nerf all Soviet units, but the problems stem from outside of the Panther itself.
In short, the problem is not the panther, but the reason panthers are so critical.
In short, the problem is not the panther, but the reason panthers are so critical.
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