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The tiger ace syndrome

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BeltFedWombat
12 Jan 2014, 18:17 PM
#21
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Patrion 14

Posts: 951

I absolutely hate this modern game design based on micro transactions or item shop.


We expect games to be supported long-term and want new content. Then we bitch when we have to pay for it. People get, literally, thousands of hours of play from CoH1/2. Compare bang for buck with a movie.

OTOH I dislike some of the DLC too, but I sympathise with the need to keep a game generating revenue. It's a fact of life in the industry right now.

People seem to want to pay their sixty bucks and have ten years of stable, consistent online play, patched and balanced.

Really?
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wuff
12 Jan 2014, 18:26 PM
#22
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Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2014, 18:17 PMBeltFedWombat


We expect games to be supported long-term and want new content. Then we bitch when we have to pay for it. People get, literally, thousands of hours of play from CoH1/2. Compare bang for buck with a movie.

OTOH I dislike some of the DLC too, but I sympathise with the need to keep a game generating revenue. It's a fact of life in the industry right now.

People seem to want to pay their sixty bucks and have ten years of stable, consistent online play, patched and balanced.

Really?


I don't think anyone would argue that DLC is a good thing when it doesn't effect anyone else apart from yourself, I especially love TOW and the cosmetic DLC relic have produced and would happily buy more of it.

However selling DLC which gives you advantage over another player isn't fair in my book.

At least it is not as bad as Deadspace 3 where the in built DLC policy helped kill that franchise.
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OZtheWiZARD
12 Jan 2014, 18:27 PM
#23
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

You didn't get my point. I am talking about games designed with item shop in mind from the start.
I am talking about changes that would make you buy something from shop to progress, to stay competitive.
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Imagelessbean
12 Jan 2014, 18:33 PM
#24
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

I am also concerned that this new DLC drop may be another stupid bunch of OP commanders. If that happens I will be done with the game as this will be the third strike.

My real disappointment with this game has been how far it strayed from vCOH.

The amount of commanders is just getting ridiculous. I used to be able to think about counters my opponent might have and their strategy. Now I feel like everything is so random.

I don't care if they don't want to support the game in a year, but I did think I was purchasing a finished product when I picked up COH2. I clearly was incorrect.
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Affe
12 Jan 2014, 20:21 PM
#25
avatar of Affe

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2014, 18:33 PMImagelessbean


The amount of commanders is just getting ridiculous.

Its not only that.The game is full of garbage commanders that nobody uses because there are too many of them and People always go for the 3-4 best commanders out of all the rest is getting ignored..Every Little shit like tanktraps is adding per dlc commander.Its so retarded to add every Little shit as a commander.

And relic will go on with this crap and spam more commanders until the game explodes.
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Stoffa
12 Jan 2014, 21:00 PM
#26
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Posts: 333

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2014, 10:32 AMwuff


I didn't want this thread to focus on the abilities of the commander but how the tiger ace and its counterpart will affect commander variation.


People should, imo, really stop being so overdramatic about this commander. It's all about balancing it properly. If Relic would make vetting one squad up cost 500 manpower and 200 fuel nobody would use it anymore.

That said I think its totally fairplay for the Germans to use this commander at the moment (and yes, I use it all the time myself). The Soviets have so much stuff in this patch that is just ridiculously op that Elite Troops doesn't even feel that strong when u play it.
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Smaug
12 Jan 2014, 21:19 PM
#27
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Posts: 366

impatiently waiting for the panther ace + elefant doctrine. I wonder with the panther ace around will the elefent be able to shoot every 3-4 seconds. Now imagine bringing vet to the elefant :P

oh and the only viable counter to the tiger ace (that i find) is the isu 152.. Mechanised Support Tactics all the way! guards + isu152 works for me.

or you can button it + mark target it + drop the 50kg bombs on it....but just be sure to bank 400~ !!! munis.
We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them
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Greeb
12 Jan 2014, 21:23 PM
#28
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Posts: 971

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2014, 21:00 PMStoffa


People should, imo, really stop being so overdramatic about this commander. It's all about balancing it properly. If Relic would make vetting one squad up cost 500 manpower and 200 fuel nobody would use it anymore.

That said I think its totally fairplay for the Germans to use this commander at the moment (and yes, I use it all the time myself). The Soviets have so much stuff in this patch that is just ridiculously op that Elite Troops doesn't even feel that strong when u play it.


I don't care if the commander is OP or not. It's just that I don't want to face a Tiger Ace every single game I play against a Elite Troops Commander player. And when I stopped playing the game, most axis players used that commander.

It's kinda boring to know exactly what will happen in the game in the first minutes.
I was tired of having to spam T34s and mines every single game just because my enemy had a free tank to use when the game was lost for him.

That's not strategy. That unit has not planification, nor saving resources for a tactical call-in... it's just a free ticket to win a lost game if you pay for that commander.

Relic said that no DLC will affect multiplayer, and that it wouldn't be P2W. They lied, and henceforth I won't play or buy another game of theirs.
I prefer to support with my money developers that doesn't lie to their customers.
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JHeartless
12 Jan 2014, 22:22 PM
#29
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Posts: 1637

I am with greeb. On hiatus until TA is nerfed into the ground. So its likely i wont be returning. Shame i was enjoying COH2.
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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sevenfour
12 Jan 2014, 22:38 PM
#30
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Posts: 222

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2014, 21:00 PMStoffa

That said I think its totally fairplay for the Germans to use this commander at the moment (and yes, I use it all the time myself). The Soviets have so much stuff in this patch that is just ridiculously op that Elite Troops doesn't even feel that strong when u play it.


Nice coming out lol
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sherlock
12 Jan 2014, 22:57 PM
#31
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Patrion 14

Posts: 550 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2014, 12:24 PMCardboard Tank

I´m already pissed about the ram ability, more range on SU-85 and mark target which screws up tank combat. But if that´s really going to happen, I doubt I will be playing to the extend I´m doing now. It´s not only small mistakes representing the factions... it seems to move to utter shit which actually has nothing to do with WW2, except some models. Give Germans anti-tank-knives! They never existed but are needed for balance of course.


I'm sorry to pursue this off topic remark but was there a change to su85s that I didn't see or when was the range increased? Are these beta changes?

The Tiger Ace can be beaten, however I preferred it when it was an indefinite all in call-in. But that can be debated. I often go guards with mark target to be able to button it and have zis and a su85 try to do some damage. It's really though to beat though.
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JHeartless
12 Jan 2014, 23:13 PM
#32
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

No changes for the SU85 since the last set of nerfs.

On topic it will be the death of coh2 if they release another super unit. Neither germans nor soviets shoukd have god mode units.
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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synThrax
12 Jan 2014, 23:44 PM
#33
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Donator 11

Posts: 144

I hate to see that people who are not thaaaat good tend to stay way too long in the game with their precious vetspamblobs and ace. :/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv4UqrWV2_U
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Stoffa
13 Jan 2014, 02:06 AM
#34
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Posts: 333

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2014, 21:23 PMGreeb

That's not strategy. That unit has not planification, nor saving resources for a tactical call-in... it's just a free ticket to win a lost game if you pay for that commander.


So the coh1 King Tiger also made you quit that game? Cause that was also paid for afterwards by upkeep, yet I heard nobody complain about that like they do about the Ace.
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pigsoup
13 Jan 2014, 02:16 AM
#35
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Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2014, 18:17 PMBeltFedWombat


We expect games to be supported long-term and want new content. Then we bitch when we have to pay for it. People get, literally, thousands of hours of play from CoH1/2. Compare bang for buck with a movie.

OTOH I dislike some of the DLC too, but I sympathise with the need to keep a game generating revenue. It's a fact of life in the industry right now.

People seem to want to pay their sixty bucks and have ten years of stable, consistent online play, patched and balanced.

Really?


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OZtheWiZARD
13 Jan 2014, 03:09 AM
#36
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Posts: 1439

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2014, 02:06 AMStoffa


So the coh1 King Tiger also made you quit that game? Cause that was also paid for afterwards by upkeep, yet I heard nobody complain about that like they do about the Ace.


Are you really going to justify this game braking unit?
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DietBrownie
13 Jan 2014, 03:27 AM
#37
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Posts: 308

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2014, 03:09 AMOZtheWiZARD


Are you really going to justify this game braking unit?


Yea he is, let me just place this here.

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DietBrownie
13 Jan 2014, 03:37 AM
#38
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Posts: 308

I really don't mind the tiger ace itself, but the fact that they combined that along with the vet system was going to create a broken commander. The thing with the King Tiger was that you received late or extremely late.(especially if you decided to go with V1 strike)The King Tiger was no where as good as the current Tiger Ace. The King Tiger did what 3-4 shot shermans and 2 shotted m10s, while the Tiger ace crushes SU-85s in 2-3 shoots. As well at guns, Upgunned Airborne and Rangers could actually do damage to the King Tiger since it was only good at killing tanks and not infantry. While the Tiger ace can wipe out squads, completely destroy at guns in 2-3 shoots, and is great at killing tanks while the King Tiger was pure AT. The only way to kill the Ace is to pray to the RNG Gods. The King Tiger was balanced, the Tiger ace is pretty damn overpowered especially since it's in the same doctrine with buying vet, g43, and smokes.
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Basilone
13 Jan 2014, 05:52 AM
#39
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Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2014, 18:17 PMBeltFedWombat


We expect games to be supported long-term and want new content. Then we bitch when we have to pay for it. People get, literally, thousands of hours of play from CoH1/2. Compare bang for buck with a movie.

OTOH I dislike some of the DLC too, but I sympathise with the need to keep a game generating revenue. It's a fact of life in the industry right now.

People seem to want to pay their sixty bucks and have ten years of stable, consistent online play, patched and balanced.

Really?

I just recently retired my Logitech wireless laptop mouse that I've been using almost exclusively since around the time COHO was out. Thats thousands and thousands of hours worth of usage but it doesn't make it worth more than the $20 or whatever I paid for it.

Look at a game like Battlefield: you spend $60 for a bi-annual title and then another $60ish total for all the DLC released in that 2 year span. Thats $120 for almost everything if you bought it at full price. Skyrim also has about $60 worth of DLC over the span of years, also a good value. CoD is about $110-130 per year if you buy all the DLC and the annual rehash...its a bit pricey but if you are very serious about it then its still not a terrible buy considering you easily spend half that in a single night out with your girlfriend. CoH2+DLC was almost $300 just 3 months or so after release which is absurd and even makes Activision look like a charitable organization in comparison.
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link0
13 Jan 2014, 08:22 AM
#40
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Posts: 337

Soviet industry is still even more OP than the Tiger Ace doctrine.
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