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Aoe4 vs Aoe2 vs CoH - Current Situation

17 Jan 2023, 23:36 PM
#1
avatar of SturmtigerCobra
Patrion 310

Posts: 962 | Subs: 11

Just a heads up..

For those hardcore CoH fans and marketing people that are "soft balling" the launch of CoH3 with “unpolished” content"/work in progress.
I suggest you take a few moments and learn from the AoE4 mistakes/delusion of grandeur as it has failed to dethrone AoE2 as the king of the series.

As it stands,
AoE2 won vs AoE4's delusion of grandeur;



As thousands of "filthy" CoH casuals (the majority) get their hands on CoH3 beta Feb 23, 2023;


https://www.aoezone.net/threads/current-situation-on-aoe4-and-aoe2.178560/page-95
Jan 9, 2023
Glad the situation is finally solved. Too bad we had long months of drama, almost all pro players and some community members completely abandoning aoe2 for several weeks or months, often while making lots of audacious statements* only to come back in shame after their falsely beloved new title failed to meet any expectations... and bunch of shills/trolls on aoezone who kept attacking anyone who dared to not be hyped for aoe4.
*Nili saying he doesn't want to watch a match between players of BacT's level, Jordan saying he has no intention of preparing for Memb's tournament, all GL boys tricking their audiences by claiming aoe4 has so much potential and is sure to be a big hit and people should try the game out instead of complaining etc. etc. it didn't take long for them to do a 180 and start shitting on aoe4 at every occasion, despite praising it to heaven few weeks earlier (looking at you, DauT)
Well, most people are willing to forgive, me included. However it should also be remembered. All the shallow praises for new product, all the unjustified calls to turn blind eye to game's plethora of problems, all the shade thrown at true fans who saw through aoe4 since the start and knew it has no chance of competing with aoe2 in either game quality or fanbase retention...

Let's hope the future will be bright and we won't have to deal with such trainwreck again. Things are looking good. A lot of pro players active, a lot of upcoming talents (praise T90 for giving them opportunity to shine in TTL!). Bunch of tournaments and some are even properly announced more than a month beforehand! Experiments with format (DWL bringing 9 vill start to "mainstream consciousness" is so good), lots of variety. AoE 2 is well.

Lessons learned?
As a studio/publisher if you don’t have the money and/or talent to live up to the great legacy of DoW, AoE and CoH IP, don’t make it a sequel, make it a spin-off.

If so, rename CoH3 to;
CoH: Mediterranean Front
Or something like that.

Historically speaking, there have been two spin-off games to Homeworld IP (former Relic IP).
Homeworld: Cataclysm
Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak

18 Jan 2023, 00:05 AM
#2
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

I know you're trying to spin the usual ball of 'Rrlic has no plan and fucks up big time', but this one really comes back at yourself.

AoE2 is a mechanically almost flawless game that has become one, maybe even THE standard in classic RTS. AoE4 did not beat it, surely, but it's taking in a lot of players at the moment. Relic has shown that they are willing and able to support the game long term, and that they know how to improve it.

CoH2 is not flawless by any means, you'll find stupid things and imbalances all over the place and you don't even have to look long or hard for them. The presentation is exceptional, but the mechanics are not. 'Living up' to CoH2 overall is not as hard as living up to AoE2.

CoH2 managed to dethrone CoH1, despite people complaining about all the talents of CoH1 having left already. If Relic supports CoH3 as they have shown to support AoE4, CoH2 will be forgotten by the end of the year. Thanks for showing that so clearly.
18 Jan 2023, 04:11 AM
#3
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1


CoH2 will be forgotten by the end of the year.


[x] doubt
18 Jan 2023, 16:04 PM
#4
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2



[x] doubt

Obviously it's a hyperbole. Look at how people described CoH1 as a "ground breaking" game. For a game that old, it has a decent player base. But CoH2, despite all its fundamental flaws, has way more.

CoH3 is a decent game at the moment. It needs some fixes, but many of the problems are fixable in the months after release. The gameplay and design is already way better than CoH2, that's what the majority of players will agree on. Relic supported AoE4 very well and managed to double player numbers, currently even closing in on AoE2. I don't have real doubts that CoH3 will not beat CoH2 once the major issues are ironed out, which should be a couple of months after release.
18 Jan 2023, 18:16 PM
#5
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 324

"Failing to dethrone aoe2" isnt really saying much. Aoe2 DE is still getting new content, and has a playerbase carrying over from 2 previous versions of the game

It's also one of the most popular rts games of all time, and is played by both hardcore rts fans and ppl who play 0 other rts alike. Tbh "dethroning aoe2" is a rly dumb bar to set for aoe4, it has been plenty successful

DO i still prefer 2? Yup, but I enjoy 4 quite a lot too

18 Jan 2023, 18:22 PM
#6
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3

I talked to Nili on stream about it. They have atleast learned that not giving Hotkeys enrages RTS players, and gave them to us in CoH3 now. But AoE4 has not picked up a lot of the AoE2 tryhards. Performance wise, AoE4 is good, but a lot of his viewers said : "They didn't listen to us" "Gameplay is shit" "No Hotkeys". They felt screwed over from the beginning

Also, i made a meme too.
18 Jan 2023, 19:51 PM
#8
avatar of WhiteFlash
Senior Mapmaker Badge
Benefactor 119

Posts: 1295 | Subs: 1

I know you're trying to spin the usual ball of 'Rrlic has no plan and fucks up big time', but this one really comes back at yourself.

AoE2 is a mechanically almost flawless game that has become one, maybe even THE standard in classic RTS. AoE4 did not beat it, surely, but it's taking in a lot of players at the moment. Relic has shown that they are willing and able to support the game long term, and that they know how to improve it.

CoH2 is not flawless by any means, you'll find stupid things and imbalances all over the place and you don't even have to look long or hard for them. The presentation is exceptional, but the mechanics are not. 'Living up' to CoH2 overall is not as hard as living up to AoE2.

CoH2 managed to dethrone CoH1, despite people complaining about all the talents of CoH1 having left already. If Relic supports CoH3 as they have shown to support AoE4, CoH2 will be forgotten by the end of the year. Thanks for showing that so clearly.


COH2 is already forgotten in my book in terms of playability after trying COH3. Frankly itd be the same story for COH1.

Too many improvements to ignore COH3, and its just getting started.
19 Jan 2023, 23:51 PM
#9
avatar of Oziligath

Posts: 192

Let's be real, coh2 right now is just not fun to play anymore, the meta is too stale and some commanders are just too OP, from a 1v1 2v2 perspective not a lot of people will stay on coh2...
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