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G2 ESL EU Finals

16 Apr 2016, 05:59 AM
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1445 | Subs: 4

MFW people are trying to give Hans (or any player for that matter) shit for playing to win in a tournament setting with a significant prize pool on the line...

Seriously? Of course Hans should play to win/play whatever strat he deems is strongest at the time. Moral victories is for minor league coaches.

Btw - congrats on your win Hans :)
16 Apr 2016, 07:27 AM
avatar of Burmie

Posts: 85

+1 ciez
gg hans
16 Apr 2016, 09:13 AM
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
strat he deems is strongest at the time (c) strongest or broken ? coz this 2 words are very different in coh2.
16 Apr 2016, 10:50 AM
avatar of HelpingHans
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Posts: 1827 | Subs: 17

Thank you CieZ and Burmie.
16 Apr 2016, 14:11 PM
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2399 | Subs: 21

Regardless, this is an important tournament where you would do whatever you could to achieve victory. You didn't see Aimstrong stop using centaurs, or VonIvan stop using maxims because they were OP did you? I mean come on.

My soul will never recover from the cancer gameplay. :foreveralone:
16 Apr 2016, 15:30 PM
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
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Posts: 16649 | Subs: 11

I don't have a problem with Hans playing to win. That's what players should do.

I have a problem with Relic and ESL letting this ridiculous pay-to-win unit into the tournament.
17 Apr 2016, 02:52 AM
avatar of Decepticus

Posts: 140

I find it ridiculous people call the Land Mattress ridiculous. It's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. If you play Brits at all, then you know this faction has no other viable arty option. Axis have Stukas and Panzerwerfers which are tier units by the way so don't force you to go a specific commander. Land Mattress only needs to be delayed a bit and its cost aligned with other arty units.

This doesn't take any shine away from Hans' performance, which was incredibly dominant throughout with axis as well as Brits and super entertaining to watch.
17 Apr 2016, 02:54 AM
avatar of Decepticus

Posts: 140

I have a problem with Relic and ESL letting this ridiculous pay-to-win unit into the tournament.

That makes it unfair only to other Brits players who can't/won't buy the commander. Axis opponents shouldn't mind since they have free access to counter artillery.
17 Apr 2016, 09:53 AM
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
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That makes it unfair only to other Brits players who can't/won't buy the commander..

17 Apr 2016, 16:07 PM
avatar of -HOI-PauL.a.D
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Posts: 1272 | Subs: 5


man, just pay the 3.99 will ya
27 Apr 2016, 05:19 AM
avatar of SturmtigerCobra
Patrion 310

Posts: 814 | Subs: 11

Congratulations on your great win Hans.

man, just pay the 3.99 will ya

Come on, it's not about the money, it's just bad marketing. Even the new SEGA CEO openly admitted the old business model has failed and need restructuring.
I made a long thread about SEGA restructuring backed by many sources/links here:

SEGA executives misjudged the gaming industry and the FTP business model. My first rule, never put executives in charge of the gaming/art industry if they are not gamers themselves. Gaming is the art industry and SEGA can't run it like a normal corporation.
In Asia, it's obvious with Riot(Tencent Holding)/Valve/Nexon which business model are going to succeed on PC. But in the West many devs/publishers are still playing catch up to Asia.

Nexon's new CEO wants creative devs, free-to-play to be fair — and cloners to take a hike (interview)
Nexon is the Asian FTP pioneers and Nexon NA was founded by Relic founder/CEO, Alex Garden. A great interview for those interested in Asian FTP.
Back at EA, I used to get lectured by business development people about how we have to have a portfolio strategy of games, because we have no idea what’s going to do well. I said, “You have no idea what’s going to do well because you’re not a gamer and you don’t care about games. You have no confidence in your ability to make good games.” How did we let our industry get taken over by the BD people? I was a BD person at the time, but at least I played games.
I feel like maybe there’s light at the end of the tunnel. A few of us in-game companies are really focused on gameplay. That’s where we’re focused.
GamesBeat: When you say “five bad years,” you don’t mean about profits or revenues, I take it? There was a lot of interesting growth in that five years.
Mahoney: The core of our business is a creative business. We make our money by making art. You have to ask yourself, in this industry, are you making good art? When I say five bad years, I think there was precious little good art coming out of the industry. Not across the board. There was some awesome stuff. But that’s not where the majority of the people you would see in these halls were focusing their time and attention.
It’s certainly not what the investors were asking about. They weren’t asking, “Where is the creative, good art coming from? Where is the next beautiful game coming from?”

With COH1, HW and DOW Relic used to have a well-respected player reputation but with SEGA being so terrible at COH2 marketing that reputation has been seriously tainted same as Creative Assembly. What SEGA west did with COH2 + Total War Rome2 was to merge the worst from both worlds with retail + EA DLC marketing (DLC money grabbing that affects core gameplay).

Nexon XP’s Min Kim and DICE chairman - Kitchen Meets World (#DICE2014 Europe)

Min Kim with Nexon XP (now former) was working close with Relic co-founder Ron Moravek on trying to make FTP more popular in NA. Nexon NA first FTP game on steam:

Nexon reassigns its top American brass to deal with star developers
Kim, formerly CEO of Nexon America, and Moravek, former head of live operations, will work with developers on such games as Dirty Bomb from Splash Damage, Project BlueStreak from Boss Key Productions (headed by Gears of War creator Cliff Bleszinski), and an unannounced title from United Front Games.

In comparison, some of the Valve/Riot/Nexon similar customization (that don't affect core gameplay) you see in the COH2 launch (2013) actual came from THQ/Relic Labs FTP business model (Ron Moravek was involved, Relic co-founder).
Adrian headed up Relic Labs, an internal group at THQ developer Relic Entertainment, where he developed innovative new game concepts utilizing emergent themes such as casual gaming, Web 2.0 and free-to-play business models.
Adrian Crook, Relic Producer 2004-2008

With COH2 WFA 2014 you got the SEGA/EA business model being fully implemented with increased focus on DLC commanders. Since WFA, the Valve/Riot/Nexon business model was changed in favor of more DLC commanders. Only just recently Relic have gone back to focus on more skins and to further monetize customization/modding.

THQ had some good talent but not enough money to be innovative and experiment with AAA games. With Sega Sammy Holdings owned by one of the richest CEOs in Japan (Hajime Satomi).
SEGA got the money to invest into quality gaming but lack marketing talent. Former Relic Co-founder Ron Moravek was recruited by THQ as "turn around" executive staff
Hired as part of "turn around" executive staff to be responsible for worldwide development of all THQ products for both internal studios and third parties. Helped pivot the organization to new business models, the new structure to increase the overall quality and profitability of the products. Unfortunately, we were unable to raise the sufficient funds on a very tight timeline and filed for Chapter 11.
* Worked to drive new Milestone process based on new game requirements including F2P, consumables, stores, DLC, GAAS, etc.
Former THQ Executive Vice President Production, also former Relic co-founder/studio boss and former top Nexon/EA executives
Linkedin Profile
Relics founder Alex Garden was involved with Nexon Asian FTP business model in early 2000s and left Relic to join Nexon. Nexon NA is also run by a bunch of former THQ and Relic. Such as Rich Williams President, Nexon America and Paula Fellbaum (former top Relic/THQ Director, Human Resources, External Studios). Nexon is primary FTP top Asian publisher in South Korea, China, Japan.

Nexon Opens First Dedicated e-Sports Stadium in Gaming Industry (2013)
Nexon Arena playing Starcraft2

Nexon Arena video advertisement 2014
Nexon Arena is the world’s first dedicated e-sports stadium, established and operating by a game company.

Valve has done the opposite than EA/SEGA with CS GO (merging the best from both worlds) which is their third generation "FTP" business model (TF is first, Dota second).
Outside COH2, Dota2 is the nr.1 and CS GO second most played game. 41.52% of the COH2 player base have DOTA2 installed and 47.32% own CS GO. In the last 2 weeks playtime (COH2 Owners: 1,857,116)
1. 13.81% played CS GO
2. 6.04% played Dota 2
3. 4.27% played Fallout
4. 3.79% played War thunder

Playtime total based on COH2 player base:
COH2 65 hours (average)
Dota2 335 hours (average)
CS GO 233 hours (average)
Total War: ROME II 127 hours (average)

For the whole DOTA2 player base (Players total: 69,004,323) the Playtime total: 204 hours.
That's pretty significant as it shows, COH2 players playing Dota2 131 hours more than the average Dota2 player.
CS GO Players total: 20,716,102
18.76% also play Heroes & Generals (WW2 ftp game)
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